EWTN Live – 2019-10-31 – 10/30/19 Archbishop Borys Gudziak

EWTN Live – 2019-10-31 – 10/30/19 Archbishop Borys Gudziak


[MUSIC] [APPLAUSE]>>WELCOME! I’M FATHER MITCH PACWA AND WELCOME TO EWTN LIVE WHERE WE BRING YOU GUESTS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. OUR GUEST HAS DONE A LOT OF TRAVELING AROUND THIS WORLD. HE WAS ENTHRONED ALMOST FIVE MONTHS AGO AS THE HEAD OF THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES. AFTER HE HELPED TO LEAD THE CHURCH’S RESURGENCE IN THE UKRAINE, HELPING TO REVIVE THE LEVIV, A CITY IN THE UKRAINE TO BRING THAT, REVIVE IT AND THAT EVOLVED INTO THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE LARGEST OF THE 23 EASTERN RITE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT IS PART OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES. AND IN THE UNITED STATES, JUST LIKE MANY OTHER DIFFERENT CHURCHES, IT FACES A LOT OF CHALLENGES, AGING PARISHIONERS, DECLINING NUMBERS AT MASS, LESS PEOPLE CONNECTED TO THE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES OF THEIR PARENTS. SO, HERE TO TELL US MORE ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES, IN THE SPIRITUAL REVIVAL THAT HE HOPES TO SEE IN IT, PLEASE, WELCOME THE METROPOLITAN ARCHBISHOP OF THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH ARCH OF PHILADELPHIA MOST REVEREND BORYS GUDZIAC. [APPLAUSE] GOOD TO HAVE YOU.>>Guest: AND IT’S GOOD TO BE BACK.>>Fr. Pacwa: WHEN YOU WERE LAST HERE?>>I THINK BEFORE I WAS A BISHOP, SO 2010, 2011.>>Fr. Pacwa: A GOOD NUMBER OF YEARS. SO, WELCOME. SINCE THEN, YOU HAVE LIVED IN –>>I WAS LIVING IN FRANCE AND I WAS IN UKRAINE FROM 1992 THROUGH 2012. HEN, THE HOLY FATHER ON THE RECOMMENDATION OF OUR SYNOD APPOINTED ME BISHOP IN PARIS FOR THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLICS IN FRANCE, BELGIUM, LUXEMBOURG TO SWITZERLAND. SO FROM 2012 TO THIS YEAR, I CIRCULATED IN THOSE COUNTRIES. AND THERE WERE THREE MILLION NEW IMMIGRANTS FROM THE UKRAINE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THERE WAS A GREAT NEED FOR ESTABLISHING NEW PARISHES THROUGHOUT THE FIVE COUNTRIES.>>THE UKRAINE HAS GONE THROUGH A LOT OF HORRIBLE DIFFICULTIES INCLUDING THE INVASION BY RUSSIA TAKING SECS OF THE COUNTRY AND STILL FIGHTING GOING ON.>>Guest: EVERYDAY. SOMEBODY IS KILLED EVERYDAY. IN THE FIVE AND A HALF YEARS OVER WAR, OVER 30,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED. THAT’S THE OFFICIAL STATISTICS AND REALLY COULD BE TWICE AS MUCH BECAUSE OF THE CASUALTIES ON THE RUSSIA OCCUPIED SIDE ARE NOT FULLY REPORTED.>>Fr. Pacwa: YEAH, UNDERREPORTING HOW MANY FOLKS DIE THERE IS –>>2 AND A HALF MILLION PEOPLE LEFT THEIR HOMES, 5 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EFFECTED. AND THE ECONOMIC WORK, IT’S A CYBER WAR, INFORMATION WAR, AND FOR EXAMPLE, UKRAINIAN ELECTRICITY CAN BE ATTACKED THROUGH THE COMPUTERS THE BANKING SYSTEM THROUGH ALL KINDS OF SANCTIONS. THE CLOSING OF THE RUSSIAN MARKET FOR UKRAINIAN GOODS. AND ALL OF THIS HAS RENDERED THE UKRAINIAN THE POOREST COUNTRY IN EUROPE OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS. AND BASICALLY, PEOPLE CAN’T MAKE ENDS MEET SO THEY ARE LEAVING, LEAVING OUT OF FEAR FOR THE WAR. AND THERE’S A LOT OF TRAUMA. THERE’S 300,000 DECOMMISSIONED SOLDIERS THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE WAR ALREADY.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND CERTAINLY, WE ARE AS AMERICANS, WELL AWARE OF THE KIND OF TRAUMA THAT SOLDIERS EXPERIENCE FROM BATTLE. IT’S PAINFUL.>>MORE U.S. SOLDIERS DIED FROM SUICIDE AFTER THE WAR THAN DIED IN VIETNAM.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THAT PATTERN IS SHOWING UP NOW.>>Guest: THAT’S RIGHT. AND THE PROBLEM IS EXACERBATED BY THE HISTORY, IN THE 20TH CENTURY BETWEEN 12 MILLION AND 15 MILLION PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN THE UKRAINE. THERE WAS WORLD WAR I AND WORLD WAR II. THERE WAS THE GENOCIDE FAMINE CALLED THE [FOREIGN WORDS] IN 32-33. AND THE MOST FERTILE LAND IN THE WORLD WITH A GOOD HARVEST, STALIN WANTED TO BREAK THE BACK OF THE PEASANT TREE WHO WAS RESISTING HIS RULE. AND THEY DIDN’T WANT TO GIVE THEIR LAND TO THE SOCIALIST, COMMUNIST SYSTEM. SO, HE REQUISITION HAD EVERY LAST POTATO, EVERY LAST HANDFUL OF WHEAT IN THE FALL OF 1932. AND OVER THAT FALL, WINTER AND SPRING OF 1933, AT LEAST 4 MILLION PEOPLE DIED. IT WAS TERRIBLE. THERE WERE KIND OF PURGES OF, FIRST OF ALL, THE CHURCH, THE ORTHODOX CHURCH IN THE SOVIET UNION, AT THE TIME WHEN THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE BECAME SOVIET UNION, IT HAD ABOUT A HYUNDAI SEESES WITH ABOUT A HUNDRED BISHOPS. AND THIS IS 1917. AND BY 1939, ONLY FOUR ACTIVE BISHOPS WERE LEFT. AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ORTHODOX WERE IMPRISONED AND SENT TO SIBERIA.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND USUALLY WORKED TO DEATH.>>Guest: YES, WORKED IN DEATH CAMPS.>>VERY FEW CALORIES EVERYDAY, PIECE OF BREAD OR THIN SOUP AND NOT MUCH MORE. AND THEY JUST WORKED IN REGIONS –>>Guest: RIGHT. WHERE IT WAS 40 OR 50° BELOW IN THE WINTERTIME. SO, WHEN STALIN PAIRED UP WITH HITLER AND BEGINNING WORLD WAR II, POLAND WAS PARTITIONED.>>Fr. Pacwa: SO FOLKS UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A TREATY BEHIND THE HITLER AND STALIN.>>CALLED THE [FOREIGN WORDS]>>Fr. Pacwa: RIGHT, MOLOTOV OF THE COCKTAIL FAME ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE AND THEY MADE AN AGREEMENT NOT TO ATTACK EACH OTHER BUT TO ATTACK POLAND TOGETHER.>>Guest: THAT’S CORRECT. AND THE UKRAINIAN TERRITORY, WHERE THE EASTERN, OR GREEK CATHOLICS LIVED, SUDDENLY THEY CAME UNDER THE SOVIETS. AND THE PARISHES WERE NOT CLOSED BUT ALL OF THEIR INSTITUTIONS WERE CLOSED. MANY PRIESTS WERE ARRESTED AND SOME EXECUTED. AND THE DEPORTATION TO SIBERIA BEGAN. I HAVE AN AUNT, 90-YEARS-OLD WHO WITNESSED, AS THE PRISONS WERE EMPTIED OF THE CORPSES AS THE SOVIETS WERE PUSHED BACK BY THE NAZIS IN 1941, TO THIS VERY DAY, THIS IS A TRAMA FOR HER. BECAUSE SHE WAS CARRYING WATER FOR THE FAMILIES TO WASH THE BODIES TO TRY TO IDENTIFY THEM. THEY HAD BEEN IN THE PRISONS FOR TWO OR THREE DAYS AND THERE WAS A TIME IN LATE JUNE, EARLY JULY WHEN THE WEATHER WAS 90° AND THE BODIES WERE DECOMPOSING. THE TRAUMA FOR GENERATION TO GENERATION, PEOPLE ENDURED UNDER COMMUNIST SYSTEMS AND THERE’S 2 BILLION PEOPLE BETWEEN ESTONIA, ALBANIA AND CHINA IN VIETNAM, THAT CONTINUED TO LIVE UNDER COMMUNISM. AND REALLY IT’S A THING THAT WE CANNOT IMAGINE.>>Fr. Pacwa: YEAH. I’VE OFTEN TOLD, WELL, I REPEATEDLY TELL FOLKS WHO ARE PART OF EWTN FAMILY THAT OF THE 75 MILLION MARTYRS IN THE HISTORY OF THE WHOLE CHURCH, 40 MILLION HAVE DIED IN THE 20TH CENTURY. AND THE BULK OF THOSE WERE EASTERN CATHOLICS AND ORTHODOX. THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX, UKRAINIAN ORTHODOX, CATHOLICS, DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, GREEK, AND SO ON. AND THEY WERE HIT WITH THE BRUNT OF THIS ONSLAUGHT OF TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BEING SLAUGHTERED.>>Guest: WHEN STALIN PUSHED BACK, AND HE WAS SURPRISED BY HITLER HIS PARTNER WHO DECLARED WAR AGAINST HIM, HE LOST MUCH TERRITORY TO BEGIN WITH IN 1941 AND 1942. AND IN 1943, HE STARTED PUSHING BACK. AND WHEN HE CONQUERED THE WESTERN UKRAINE IN 1944 AND BEGAN CONSOLIDATING HIS HOLDS, EVEN BEFORE THE WAR EASTBOUND HAD, HE ARRESTED ALL OF THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT THE CHURCH WAS SO INTERWOVEN WITH ALL ASPECTS OF UKRAINIAN SOCIETY AND THE CHURCH, WITH ITS MORAL CODE, TRANSCENDENT, SAY, QUALITY, ITS CATHOLIC GLOBAL COMMUNION COULD NOT BE CONTROLLED. AND IF IT COULDN’T BE CONTROLLED, THEN THE PEOPLE COULDN’T BE CONTROLLED. SO HE DECIDED TO LIQUIDATE IT. SO ALL OF THE BISHOPS WERE ARRESTED AND PRIESTS WERE FORCED TO SIGN A PAPER THAT THEY WERE JOINING THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. AND THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLICS HAVE A RIGHT TO ALMOST WHAT THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX PRACTICE. WE’RE BYZANTINE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE IN COMMUNION WITH ROME.>>Fr. Pacwa: YOU CELEBRATE THE LITURGY OF SAINT JOHN CHRYSOSTOM AND SO DID DO THE ORTHODOX.>>Guest: RIGHT.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND IT’S A BEAUTIFUL LITURGY AND SOMETIMES THERE ARE A SLIGHT VARIATIONS IN CHANTING. BUT IT’S STILL ABSOLUTELY STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL MUSIC THAT LIFTS THE SOUL.>>Guest: SO WHAT HAPPENED IS, PRIESTS HAD A CHOICE. EITHER RENOUNCE THEIR CATHOLIC COMMUNION OR GO TO SIBERIA. AND WE DON’T KNOW EXACTLY BUT OVER 800 PRIESTS WERE DEPORTED, OFTEN WITH FAMILIES. BECAUSE MANY WERE MARRIED. AND THE LIFE OF THE CHURCH CAME TO A HALT. MANY PRIESTS WERE EXILED. SOME FLED TO THE WEST. I THINK OVER 500 MADE THEIR WAY WESTWARD FOLLOWING A WHOLE WAVE OF IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES, INCLUDING MY PARENTS. ACTUALLY, THE LIFE OF THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH CAME TO A VISIBLE HALT. IT WAS STRIPPED OF EVERY THREAD OF ITS GARMENTS. NO INSTITUTIONS, NO RESOURCES. THE CLERGY WAS IMPRISONED. THE HIERARCHY WAS MARTYRED AND ABOUT 400,000 WESTERN UKRAINIANS UKRAINIANS WERE DEPORTED TO SIBERIA, ABOUT 10% OF THE POPULATION.>>AND SO, THE BEHIND THE WAR, IT WAS DEPORTED UKRAINIANS AND THEN BROUGHT IN RUSSIANS.>>RIGHT. IT WAS DESIRED TO MIX THE POPULATION AND TO KEEP COMMUNITIES FROM HAVING GOOD SOCIAL COHESION. AND THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE STORY. AND I WANT TO SHARE THIS WITH OUR VIEWERS AND WITH ALL FAITHFUL IN THE U.S. AND WITH PRIESTS AND BISHOPS BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE EITHER ANGRY, DEPRESSED, WORRIED, FEARFUL. WE’VE GOT SCANDALS, WE HAVE FINANCIAL PROBLEMS.>>Fr. Pacwa: WE HAVE POLITICIANS THREATENING TO HARM US FINANCIALLY IF WE DON’T GO ALONG WITH THEIR AGENDA.>>Guest: THERE IS A LOT BECOMING UNGLUED IN THE CHURCH AND IN SOCIETY. JESUS TELLS US ONE THING BASICALLY AFTER THE RESURRECTION. ONE THING HE REPEATS OVER AND OVER. PEACE BE WITH YOU. AND DON’T FEAR. NOW, I WANT TO SAY PEACE BE WITH US ALL AND WE SHOULD NOT FEAR. AND I SAY, SERIOUSLY, MAYBE WITH A BIT OF A SMILE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GOING TO GET WORSE? WE JUST NEED TO BE READY FOR IT. BUT I DON’T THINK, I HOPE IT’S NOT GOING TO BE WHAT OUR CHURCH SUFFERED, BEING TOTALLY CLOSED DOWN. OUR CHURCH HAD 3,000 PRIESTS BEFORE WORLD WAR II, IN 1939. AND BY 1989, 50 YEARS OF WAR AND PERSECUTION, ONLY 300 AGED PRIESTS WERE LEFT, ABOUT 70-YEARS-OLD IN A COUNTRY WITH A LIFE EXPECTANCY OF MALES WAS 63-YEARS-OLD. AND THE SOVIETS THOUGHT BASICALLY, THEY HAD FINISHED THE JOB. THESE 300 PRIESTS WERE SO CONTROLLED, SO MONITORED THAT THEY COULD HARDLY MOVE AT NIGHT. THEY WOULD TRY TO CELEBRATE THE LITURGY, BAPTIZE SOMEBODY, MAYBE MARRY A COUPLE TO TRY TO CELEBRATE MATRIMONY. MAYBE EACH OF THESE PRIESTS MIGHT SERVE A HUNDRED PEOPLE. IF YOU DO THE MATH, THAT’S ABOUT 30,000 PEOPLE THAT HAD SOME LIMITED CONTACT WITH THE CHURCH WITH SOME REGULARITY. THAT’S OUT OF 4 MILLION PEOPLE. IN OTHER WORDS, THE CHURCH HAD LOST THE ACTIVE PARTICIPATION OF AT LEAST 99% OF ITS FAITHFUL.>>Fr. Pacwa: RIGHT.>>Guest: AND WE’RE TALKING 32, 33 YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS YOUNG. AND MANY DISCOUNTED ANY POSSIBLE FUTURE. IT WAS A SAD STORY. BUT WE NEED TO MOVE ON. EVEN IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. TODAY, THIS CHURCH HAS 3,000 PRIESTS AGAIN, FROM 300 TO 3,000 IN 30 YEARS. THE AVERAGE AGE IS 40-YEARS-OLD. AND FOR 5 MILLION FAITHFUL GLOBALLY, IT HAS 800 SEMINARIANS. THIS WAS NOT A STRATEGY. THIS WAS NOT TACTICS, NOT GOOD MANAGEMENT. IT WAS MARTYRDOM, WITNESS, AND ABOVE ALL, GOD’S GRACE. IT’S A MIRACLE AS IS OUR LIFE AND OUR SMILE. WE CAN DIE IN A MINUTE, IN A YEAR. BUT IT’S ALL GRACE! AND IF WE CAN LIVE OUR LIFE AS A GIFT, WE CAN ENCOURAGE OTHERS.>>Fr. Pacwa: THIS IS SOMETHING IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, WE LIVE IN A TIME OF GREAT TENSION IN THE UNITED STATES, AND IN THE WESTERN CULTURE. THE WESTERN CULTURE IS UNDERCUTTING ITSELF IN MANY WAYS. NOT UNLIKE THE WAY THAT COMMUNISM UNDERCUT THE VERY CULTURE AND THE FIBER OF CULTURE IN THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE AND MADE IT THIS CHAOTIC POLLUTED MESS. WE LIVE AT A TIME WHERE THIS UNDERCUTTING OF THE CHRISTIAN ORIGINS OF OUR CULTURE IS BEING DONE SYSTEMATICALLY, ANGRILY. AND WE CAN SAY, OH, JESUS, YOU GOT TO COME BACK NOW! BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW HOW WE’RE GOING TO FIX IT. OR, WE CAN SAY, JESUS, I TRUST IN YOU! NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT, I’M GOING TO TRUST IN YOU. THIS IS THE MESSING THAT WE HAVE TO — MESSAGE THAT WE HAVE TO PRONOUNCE. IT’S NO ACCIDENT THAT THE MESSAGE OF ST. FAUSTINA HAPPENED RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF EASTERN POLAND AND BELARUS, WHERE EAST AND WEST MEET. AND AS ST. JOHN PAUL II SAID.>>NOW, THE HEART OF OUR FAITH IS THE TRINITY. TRINITY IS THREE PERSONS AND IT’S A MYSTERY THAT WE CAN’T FATHOM WITH OUR MIND BUT WE RELATE TO IT INTUITIVELY AND WITH OUR SPIRITUAL SENSES. GOD IS LOVE AND DOESN’T MEAN THAT GOD IS SOME NIRVANA OR POSITIVE ENERGY. GOD IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF THREE PERSONS AND WE ARE CREATED IN GOD’S IMAGE AND LIKENESS AND AS PERSONS, WE NEED RELATIONSHIP. IT’S LIKE OUR AIR, THE WATER FOR OUR BODIES. AND WE NEED RELATIONSHIP. THE COMMUNIST SYSTEM WANTED TO CONTROL PEOPLE IN A TOTAL WAY, NOT LIKE THE ROMAN EMPIRE WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, TO CHRISTIANS, PUT SOME INCENSE BEFORE THE GOD’S AND DO WHAT YOU WANT. THE COMMUNISTS WANTED CONTROL EVERY SINGLE STEP OF YOUR LIFE, EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR THOUGHT PATTERNS. THERE WAS A HERO FOR ALL SOVIET CHILDREN, ACROSS ALL NINE TIME ZONES. HIS NAME WAS LITTLE PAUL MORDORZ. WELL, WHAT WAS HIS LEGEND? HE, LITTLE PAUL TURNED HIS FATHER INTO THE SOVIET AUTHORITIES. HE RATTED ON HIS OWN FATHER. AND THROUGHOUT THE SOVIET UNION, IN EVERY MAJOR TOWN THERE WAS A STREET NAMED AFTER LITTLE PAUL. CHILDREN WERE TAUGHT, THIS IS THE MODEL FOR YOU. YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF LITTLE PAUL. SO, IF YOUR PARENTS SAY SOMETHING THAT IS CONTRARY TO SOVIET IDEOLOGY, CONTRARY TO THE GOVERNMENT, CONTRARY TO THE POLICIES, YOU SHOULD TELL US. THIS CREATES INCREDIBLE DISTRUST BECAUSE PARENTS KNOW THAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT TO DO SO. IN SOME CITIES –>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THE CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT, YOUR PARENTS MAY NOT BE TRUSTWORTHY. WE’RE MORE TRUSTWORTHY THAN THEY ARE. AND AGAIN, PAY ATTENTION ON THE NEWS WHAT IS SAID IN SCHOOL TO CHILDREN ABOUT THEIR PARENTS. IT’S THE SAME OF THE SOVIET.>>IT’S THE BREAKING UP OF MOST FUNDAMENTAL RELATIONSHIPS. IN OUR WESTERN SOCIETY, WE HAVE THIS EXTREME INDIVIDUALISM WHICH IS RELATIONAL AND ALSO, ON THE LEVEL OF OUR EPISTEMOLOGY, THE WAY WE THINK WE KNOW THINGS. WE BECOME EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE. AND THINK THIS. YOU THINK THAT. WHAT YOU THINK IS YOUR THINKING.>>Fr. Pacwa: RADICAL RELATIVISM OF THE DAY THAT IT’S TAUGHT UNTIL THERE’S A DISAGREEMENT. THEN, FOLKS TRY TO SHOVE THEMSELVES DOWN YOUR THROAT.>>Guest: AND WE LOSE COMMON DENOMINATORS. WE LOSE THE FABRIC OF OUR RELATIONSHIPS IN FAMILIES, IN COMMUNITIES, IN COUNTRIES. AND IT MIGHT GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE BECOME VERY SMALL, THAT LAST REMAINDER, LIKE IT WAS WITH OUR CHURCH. JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, LIKE IT WAS ACTUALLY WITH CHRIST HIMSELF. THERE WERE VERY FEW THAT REMAINED TO THE BITTER END.>>Fr. Pacwa: VERY FEW. SAINT JOHN, OUR LADY, MARY MAGDALENE, AND A COUPLE OF OTHER WOMEN.>>Guest: THAT’S RIGHT. THAT’S RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, FOR ME, PAUL IS BECOMING EVER MORE A SOURCE OF INSPIRATION. HOW HE TIRELESSLY, POSITIVELY, JOYFULLY, ENTHUSIASTICALLY PROCLAIMED THE GOSPEL. WE THINK THE LETTER TO THE CORINTHIANS WAS WRITTEN TO A MEGA CHURCH. BUT IT WAS A SMALL COMMUNITY. AND WRITING TO THE PHILIPPIANS FROM THE PRISON IN ROME. AND READ THE LETTER TO THE PHILIPPIANS, IT’S ONLY FOUR CHAPTERS. WHAT FREEDOM PAUL HAS IN SAYING, YOU KNOW, WELL, I COULD LIVE. AND THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THAT IS, I CAN SERVE ALL OF YOU MORE. BUT IF I DIE AND I AM KILLED IN PRISON, I’LL GO TO THE LORD. HE’S ABSOLUTELY FREE BECAUSE OF THIS INCREDIBLE LOVE FOR CHRIST. AND I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE THESE EXAMPLES OF THE MARTYRS. YOU KNOW, OFTEN MARTYRDOM IS TREATED AS SOMETHING FAR AND DISTANT. BUT YOU SAID, THE 20TH CENTURY IS THE QUINTESSENTIAL CENTURY OF MARTYRDOM.>>MORE MARTYRS BETWEEN 1914 AND THE YEAR 2000, THAN IN THE PREVIOUS 1900 YEARS! THERE WERE 35 MILLION MARTYRS UP UNTIL 1900. 40 MORE MILLION AFTER 1900. WE CANNOT NEGLECT THAT. AND THAT’S JUST A PART OF THE 305 MILLION PEOPLE KILLED MOSTLY BY COMMUNISTS.>>THAT’S RIGHT. TODAY, YOU KNOW, OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE FAITH ARE BEING KILLED IN SYRIA, IRAQ, NORTHERN AFRICA, IN THE FAR EAST. AND WE KNOW GENERALLY WHAT’S HAPPENING IN AFRICA, CHINA AND WHERE THEY SAY NOW 10 MILLION CATHOLICS IN THE POPULATION OF CHRISTIANS HAS BEEN GROWING. THERE’S NEVER BEEN AS MANY CHRISTIANS IN THE WORLD AS WE HAVE TODAY, NEVER AS MANY CATHOLICS. THIS IDEA OF DECLINE, DEMISE, AND WE JUST NEED TO GIVE UP IS REALLY, IT’S NOT STATISTICALLY SUPPORTED, BUT STATISTICS AREN’T THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. IT’S NOT THE MODALITY, THE NATURE OF OUR FAITH. AND THAT’S WHY I WANT TO BRING THE STORY OF THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH TO THE AMERICAN AUDIENCE. I WANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ, TO VISIT BECAUSE FOR ME, I DIDN’T SUFFER. I LIVED A COMFORTABLE MIDDLE CLASS CHILD, IN SYRACUSE, NEW YORK. I WANTED TO PLAY IN THE NBA. AND THAT WAS REALLY A FANTASY, BECAUSE I WAS NEVER THAT GOOD.>>Fr. Pacwa: WELL, I WAS SO BAD, I DIDN’T EVEN HAVE THAT FANTASY! [LAUGHTER]>>Guest: IT WAS A GREAT GRACE TO BE CALLED TO THE PRIESTHOOD AND SERVE IN THE UKRAINE FOR 20 YEARS. I WENT TO FRANCE KICKING AND SCREAMING. I DIDN’T REALLY WANT TO BE A BISHOP IN PARIS. BUT THE CHURCH ASKED. I KIND OF WENT AND IT BECAME AN INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE. WE TRIPLED ALMOST THE NUMBER OF MISSIONS, THE NUMBER OF PRIESTS DOUBLED. AND I CAME, THE BUDGET OF MY DIOCESE FOR FIVE COUNTRIES, FOR THE BISHOP, THE STAFF AND ALL ACTIVITY ON THE DIOCESAN LEVEL, NOT THE PARISH LEVEL, WAS $40,000 PER YEAR. WE LIVED VERY, VERY MODESTLY. THE PRIESTS LIVED WITH ME WHETHER THEY WERE CELIBATE OR MARRIED. AND WE GET IN THE VAN AND GO ON A MISSION. AND WE SING MATINS AND VESPERS IN THE VAN COMING AND GOING. AND THERE WAS GREAT LOVE. I’M GLAD TO BE HERE IN THE U.S. THE CHALLENGES FOR UKRAINIAN CATHOLICS IS THE SAME FOR ALL CATHOLICS.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND REALLY FOR ALL CHRISTIANS. THE PROTESTANT CHURCH, INCLUDING THE EVANGELICALS ARE ALSO EXPERIENCING THIS LOSS OF MANY OF THEIR YOUNG. THE ATHEISTS DON’T HAVE CHILDREN PHYSICALLY, THEY ARE LIKE GELDINGS AND THEY DON’T HAVE THE KIDS. AND THEY ARE MORE LIKE PARASITES AND TAKE THE CHILDREN OF THE BELIEVERS AND TRY TO TURN THEM INTO ATHEISTS. AND THEY USE ALL SORTS OF PROPAGANDA TO DO THIS. BUT THIS IS A PROBLEM. AND ALL OF THE CHURCHES ARE EXPERIENCING THIS.>>Guest: IT’S A BIG CHALLENGE BECAUSE THERE ARE CULTURAL CURRENTS. THIS INDIVIDUALISM OR OUR CONSUMERISM, WE’RE THE MOST COMFORTABLE CO-HORT OF HUMAN BEINGS ON THIS PLANET. WE DON’T TOLERATE THE HEAT AND THERE’S AIR BUT WE LOWER IT TO 66°. AND IF IT’S COLD, WE GOT ALL OF THE HEATING WE NEED. WE HAVE 35 BRANDS OF DEODORANT, MEN’S DEODORANT, IN THE PHARMACIES. AND WE HAVE EVERY POSSIBLE FOOD.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND WE HAVE SO MUCH FOOD, I WENT TO A SOAP STORE ONE TIME, I SAW AVACADO SOAP, APPLES, PEACHES, AND WE SMEAR FOOD ON US WITH SOAP!>>Guest: THAT’S ALL NEUTRAL IF IT DOESN’T CONTROL US AND IF IT DOESN’T FILL THE PLACES THAT SHOULD BE FILLED BY SPIRITUAL FOOD. OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, BY OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR CHILDREN, WITH OUR PARENTS, WITH OUR SIBLINGS. INSTEAD, WE’RE HOOKED TO THESE SCREENS. AND THAT QUALITY THAT GOD CONVEYS TO US, THE RELATIONSHIP OF PERSONS IS SOMETHING THAT WE BECOME MORE AND MORE INCOMPETENT IN AND WE SUFFER. WE SUFFER LONELINESS AND ALIENATION. WE COME ALONG WITH THE WORD, WE COME AROUND THE CUP AND THE BREAD. AND JUST SHARING THE VICTORY OF CHRIST OVER OUR DEATH. THE VICTORY OF CHRIST OVER OUR FEAR. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CATACOMBS. IT WAS AMAZING. I HAD THE PRIVILEGE IN THE LATE 1980’S TO PARTICIPATE IN A FEW CATACOMB SERVICES. ONCE I WENT TO SEE A PRIEST AND HE WAS ACTUALLY A BISHOP. BUT HE DIDN’T TELL ME HE WAS A BISHOP BECAUSE HE WAS A SECRET BISHOP. HE WAS KIND OF A BISHOP IN RESERVE. HE WAS THE AUXILLIARY IF THE ORDINARY BISHOP WAS ARRESTED, HE WOULD STEP IN. I WENT TO CONFESSION. AND WE CELEBRATED THE LITURGY. AND HE WAS ACTUALLY A MONK OF THE STEW INDICT ORDER. AND I KNEW HIS CONFRERES IN ITALY AND THEY ALSO HAD A MONASTERY IN PARAGUAY. AND I TOLD HIM ABOUT IT WITH CHILDLIKE JOY. AND HE WAS LISTENING ABOUT THESE MONKS WITH WHOM HE HAD A SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP. THE INTENSITY AND THE PURITY OF THAT MOMENT, OF THE QUALITY OF REALLY HOLDING ON, DESPITE THE DANGER, DESPITE THE THREAT OF ARREST, DEPORTATION, MAYBE DEATH, IT MADE THAT, THE LIFE IN THE UNDERGROUND, UNIQUE. AND IT WAS THAT SEED OF THE KINGDOM THAT LITTLE MUSTARD SEED, THAT HALF PERCENT THAT REMAINED THAT HAS NOW FLOURISHED, THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH, BECAUSE IT DIDN’T COLLABORATE WITH THE REGIME HAS GREAT MORAL AUTHORITY IN SOCIETY EVEN THOUGH IT’S ONLY 8% OF THE UKRAINE. BUT THE UKRAINE HAS BETWEEN 40, 45 MILLION PEOPLE AND NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY BECAUSE THE CENSUS WAS MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO. BUT CARDINAL HURZOG, WHO DIED TWO YEARS AGO WAS THE MORAL AUTHORITY IN THE COUNTRY AND HIS SUCCESSOR THERE, RELATIVELY YOUNG, HE’S 48-YEARS-OLD SPEAKS MANY LANGUAGES, VERY BRIGHT, SMILING –>>Fr. Pacwa: I INTERVIEWED HIM JUST ABOUT A YEAR AND A QUARTER AGO. IT WAS A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL INTERVIEW HOW THE CHURCH IS DEVELOPING IN THE UKRAINE.>>Guest: SO, WHEN WE CAN REMAIN FAITHFUL, EVEN IF IT COSTS DEARLY, THE LORD GIVES FRUIT. AND WE NEED TO HAVE THAT EXAMPLE BEFORE OUR EYES.>>Fr. Pacwa: THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE VERY MUCH NEED TO REMEMBER. IT’S BECOME A PATTERN IN THE UNITED STATES TO ATTACK AND TRY TO REMOVE IMAGES OF OUR NATIONAL HEROES. GREAT FOUNDERS, AND THOUGH THEY WERE FLAWED PEOPLE, THEY WERE NOT PERFECT, BUT THEY WERE HEROES. AND AT THE SAME TIME OF THEIR IMPERFECTION. AND IT’S IMPORTANT FOR US, AS CATHOLICS, TO RECOVER THE HEROES OF OUR FAITH. THOSE WHO STOOD FIRM. THOSE WHO SHED THEIR BLOOD RATHER THAN CAVE IN TO THE STATE. THESE ARE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT THINGS. WE WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT THIS. BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO SO WITH SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. SO, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ARCHBISHOP BORYS, PLEASE CALL IN. AND WE’LL GET TO THOSE QUESTIONS. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE]>>Fr. Pacwa: ALL RIGHT. WELL, ARE YOU READY FOR SOME QUESTIONS? OKAY. LET’S START OFF WITH JOHN. JOHN, WHERE ARE YOU CALLING US FROM?>>Voice: HELLO, FATHER MITCH.>>Fr. Pacwa: WELL, JOHN IN OHIO, HOW ARE YOU?>>Voice: WELL, THIS IS FASCINATING AND I WANTED TO ASK, TO YOUR BISHOP FRIEND, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK WE’LL SAY SOME PRAYERS BEFORE WE GO TO BED ON THIS. MAYBE IT’S A LITTLE BIT OF THE HAIR FROM THE DOG THAT’S BITING YOU. I’M WONDERING IF THERE’S ANY EVANGELISTIC PLANS OR PRAYERS OR PROGRAMS THAT COULD BE EVEN DONE ON THE LESSER FRIENDLY SIDE OF THE BORDER, WHAT THE BISHOP THINKS ABOUT THIS.>>Fr. Pacwa: WELL, WHAT KIND OF OUTREACH DO WE HAVE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. WHAT’S THE RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE THERE? AND THE UKRAINIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH IN THE UKRAINE.>>Guest: LET ME GIVE SOME BACKGROUND. THERE’S BETWEEN 4 MILLION AND 6 MILLION UKRAINIANS IN RUSSIA BECAUSE OF THE DEPORTATIONS. ALSO, THE UKRAINIANS WENT TO WORK IN THE BIG CENTERS, IN THE MINES THERE, IN THE VARIOUS INDUSTRIES. IF YOU TAKE THE FACT THAT 8% OR 10% OF UKRAINIANS ARE EASTERN CATHOLIC, THAT MEANS THAT THERE COULD BE ABOUT A HALF MILLION EASTERN CATHOLICS IN RUSSIA HOWEVER, THESE EASTERN CATHOLICS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE REGISTERED PARISHES. THEY EXIST UNDER THE COVER OF ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHES IN SOME CASES WHERE IT CAN HAPPEN. BUT MOST PLACES, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EXIST. AND FOR THOSE FIVE MILLION TO FOUR MILLION TO SIX MILLION UKRAINIANS, THERE’S NOT A SINGLE UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS IN THE TIME ZONES OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION. SO, IT’S NOT EASY FOR THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLICS TO HAVE AN IDENTITY OR LEGAL EXISTENCE. BASICALLY, THEY DON’T. POPULATION. THERE IS AN OUTREACH TO OTHER PARTS OF THE UKRAINE WHERE PEOPLE ARE UNCHURCHED. THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO SAY, AS THE BELORUSSIAN PRESIDENT SAYS, I’M ORTHODOX BUT I’M ATHEIST. ORTHODOX IS LIKE A CULTURAL LABEL. IT’S SOMETHING THAT HAS FORMED THE LEGACY OF MY NATION. BUT IT IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACHMENT TO JESUS CHRIST. IT IS NOT LIVING ACCORDING TO THE GOSPEL, ACCORDING TO THE LIFE OF THE CHURCH, IT’S NOT EVEN PRACTICING. IN RUSSIA, THE RELIGIOUS PRACTICE IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 2%. RUSSIA HAS THE HIGHEST ABORTION RATE IN THE WORLD.>>Fr. Pacwa: IN MOSCOW, LIKE IN NEW YORK, AND IN WASHINGTON, D.C., 60% OF ALL CHILDREN CONCEIVED GET ABORTED.>>Fr. Pacwa: THESE ARE SO PAINFUL STATISTICS AND WHEN PUTIN SAYS I’M THE PROTECTOR OF TRADITIONAL VALUES AND UNFORTUNATELY, SOME CATHOLICS BELIEVE HIM THIS IS JUST AMISS. THIS IS FAKE. THE MESSAGE TODAY, WHETHER IT’S ACROSS THE RUSSIAN BORDER OR WHETHER IT’S IN THE UKRAINIAN FAMILIES, IT NEEDS TO BE FROM HEART TO HEART, FROM PERSON TO PERSON. IN THE UNDERGROUND, WHEN THE CHURCH WAS PERSECUTED AND THE FAITH WAS PUBLICLY PROHIBITED, THE GREATEST CARRIERS WERE OFTEN GRANDMOTHERS, PARENTS WHO TAUGHT THEIR CHILDREN TO PRAY.>>Fr. Pacwa: I CAME ACROSS THAT WITH MEN FROM THE UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, JOSEPH [FOREIGN NAME] HIS GRANDMOTHER WAS THE ONE WHO PASSED ON THE FAITH BECAUSE HIS PARENTS COULD NOT.>>Guest: AND FORTUNATELY, WESTERN UKRAINE WAS UNDER THE SOVIETS FOR ONLY TWO GENERATIONS. WHICH MEANT THERE WERE STILL GRANDPARENTS THAT LIVED TO SEE FREEDOM. ACTUALLY YESTERDAY WAS THE 30TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE LIBERATION OF PROBABLY THE BIGGEST UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE AREA. BECAME CATHOLIC AGAIN. AND DECEMBER 1 IS GOING TO BE THE 30TH ANNIVERSARY OF GORBACHEV’S MEETING WITH SAINT POPE JOHN PAUL II. AND ON THIS OCCASION, BEFORE THE MEETINGS, SOVIET AUTHORITIES ANNOUNCED AFTER 43 YEARS OF ILLEGAL EXISTENCE, THE EASTERN CATHOLICS IN THE UKRAINIAN COULD BE FREE AGAIN. AND IN THAT TIME, IT HAD TO BE PERSON TO PERSON. AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO RETURN TO THAT. WE NEED FOR EACH CATHOLIC, EACH CHRISTIAN TO BE A MISSIONARY DISCIPLE. SOMEBODY THAT CARRIES THE FAITH OR THE WORD. BUT MORE SO WITH OUR LIFE, THE WAY WE LOOK AT PEOPLE, THE WAY WE SMILE. THE CHOICES THAT WE MAKE. PEOPLE SHOULD BE IN SOME WAY ATTRACTED TO THE LIFE OF CHRISTIANS. AS IT WAS IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE. THE ROMAN EMPIRE WAS BRUTAL WITH THE CRUCIFIXIONS, THE SLAVERY, WITH THE MINIMAL RIGHTS OF WOMEN. CHRISTIANS CONVERTED THE EMPIRE BY LOVE. THEY WERE DIFFERENT. AND WE NEED TO BE DIFFERENT. WE NEED TO HAVE OUR WHOLE LIFE GUIDED BY THE EXAMPLE OF OUR LORD IT’S NOT EASY. WE’RE ALL WEAK AND WE CAN SUPPORT EACH OTHER IN IT. AND THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED IN THE UNDERGROUND. THAT IS WHERE THE FAITH IS SPREADING TODAY IN THE UKRAINE. AS UKRAINIAN YOUNG PEOPLE ARE MORE AND MORE BOMBARDED BY THE SAME INFLUENCES THAT ARE PRESENT AND PREVALENT GLOBALLY.>>Fr. Pacwa: ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET’S TAKE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM OUR STUDIO AUDIENCE. EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU, NOAH, WHAT’S YOUR QUESTION?>>Voice: WELL, YES, I CAN FEEL THE POWER OF YOUR WITNESS AS SOMEONE WHO HAS SUFFERED FOR JESUS CHRIST. I CAN FEEL THAT POWER. ONE DOES NOT ALWAYS FEEL THAT POWER FROM OUR PRIESTS, OUR BISHOPS, AND OUR CARDINALS. OF COURSE, NO ONE MAKES THE CHOICE TO GO AND SUFFER LIKE YOU HAVE SUFFERED. BUT WHAT COULD YOU SAY TO THEM SO THEY COULD HAVE THE MORAL AUTHORITY OF A LIFE THAT HAS SUFFERED FOR JESUS CHRIST?>>Guest: I’VE SUFFERED A LITTLE BIT BUT REMEMBER, I LIVED IN SYRACUSE NEW YORK, I WAS BORN THERE. I HAD A FAIRLY SOFT LIFE. I WAS NEVER BEATEN FOR MY FAITH, I LIVED YOU KNOW, I WAS RIDICULED FOR MY FAITH. AND I WAS CALLED FOR A VOCATION, THAT WAS NOT A HIGH POINT TO BE CALLED FOR THE VOCATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES. BUT I’VE HAD THE GREAT GRACE OF RECORDING THE TESTIMONIES OF MANY LIVING MARTYRS. AS WE WERE BEGINNING THE PROJECT OF THE UNIVERSITY, WE BEGAN WITH AN INSTITUTE OF CHURCH HISTORY. WE WERE FASCINATED BY THE HISTORY WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN LOST BECAUSE THE UNDERGROUND HID EVERY BIT OF THEIR HISTORY. THERE WERE NO ARCHIVES AND WE MADE THE SYSTEMATIC EFFORT OVER 25 YEARS AND HAVE INTERVIEWED OVER 2,500 PEOPLE. WE’VE TRANSCRIBED IT ALL. IT’S 150,000 PAGES OF LIFE STORIES.>>ALL HISTORY.>>Guest: RIGHT, ALL HISTORY PROJECT. AND WHEN THE PEOPLE FROM THE UNDERGROUND SAW THAT WE REALLY CARED WHAT THEY LIVED, THEY REALLY OPENED UP. THEY GAVE US THEIR ARREST WARRANTS. IF THEY HAD ANY PICTURES FROM SIBERIA OR FROM ANY KIND OF IMPRISONMENT. IF THERE WERE ANY PICTURES AT ALL FROM THE UNDERGROUND, THEY GAVE IT TO US. AND WE DECIDED THAT THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BE KIND OF A PILLAR OF OUR UNIVERSITY. THE OTHER PILLAR, THIS IS THE MARTYRS AND THE OTHER PILLAR IS THE MARGINALIZED. AND I WAS KIND OF A DISCIPLE FROM A DISTANCE AND THEN IN A FRIENDSHIP WITH THE FOUNDER OF LARCHE. WE DECIDED TO BUILD THE UNIVERSITY AND THE AREAS FOR THE MARGINALIZED. AND RIGHT NOW, THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST SAT SCORES OF ANY PLACE IN THE UKRAINE AND BY FAR ACTUALLY, BY FIVE PERCENT. AND WE TOOK THOSE WHO DON’T HAVE THE HIGH I.Q. AND PUT THEM IN THE CENTER BECAUSE OUR FRIENDS WITH SPECIAL NEEDS HAVE A SPECIAL GIFT. AND IN THIS SOCIETY WHERE PEOPLE FEAR THE OTHER, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM KILLED SYSTEMATICALLY SO YOU CLOSE YOURSELF OFF FROM ALL KINDS OF OUTSIDE DANGERS VIA A MASK, A FACADE, A WALL, AND IN THOSE SYSTEMS WHERE THEY ARE ENCUMBERED BY SPECIAL NEEDS, THEY BREAK THE ICE. THEY DON’T CARE IF YOU ARE THE RECTOR OR THE BISHOP, RICH OR POOR, THEY JUST WANT TO KNOW, CAN YOU LOVE. AND THEY ASK, CAN YOU LOVE. THAT’S THE MOST IMPORTANT PEDAGOGICAL QUESTION. AND I WAS INFLUENCED BY THE MARTYRS AND I WAS SHARING EXPERIENCES WITH OUR HANDICAPPED FRIENDS WITH SPECIAL GIFTS. AND THINK I RECEIVED A LOT OF GRACES AND I WANT TO SHARE THOSE WITH JOY, WITH CONFIDENCE THAT THIS IS GOD’S CHURCH. THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL OVER IT.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND WE HAVE FORCES AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY JUST BRAGGED A YEAR OR SO AGO IN ICELAND THAT THEY HAVE NOBODY IN ICELAND WITH DOWNS SYNDROME BECAUSE THEY HAVE KILLED THEM ALL. AND THEY ARE BRAGGING. AND WHAT THEY MISSED IS THAT THE FOLKS WHO HAVE THESE VARIOUS PHYSICAL AND MENTAL CHALLENGES ARE NEEDED BY SOCIETY, BECAUSE THEY TEACH US TO BE GENTLE. THEY EVOKE THAT FROM US. AND SOCIETIES THAT DESTROY THEM BECOME VIOLENT AND SELF DESTRUCTIVE IN WIDER WAYS. SO, LET’S TAKE ANOTHER CALL IF YOU DON’T MIND. THOMAS? VOICE YES, FATHER>>Fr. Pacwa: ARE YOU CALLING US FROM TENNESSEE? WELL, YOU ARE SOMETHING>>’Voice: I AM. I LOVE YOUR PROGRAM AND I JUST LOVE TO WATCH YOU AND YOUR GUESTS. MY QUESTION IS FOR THE ARCHBISHOP AND WITH A FOLLOWUP QUESTION. ARCHBISHOP, WHY DO YOU THINK OUR YOUNG PEOPLE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE SO RECENTLY ENTHUSIASTICALLY EMBRACED SOCIALISM GIVEN WHAT WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH IN THE 20TH CENTURY. AND MY FOLLOWUP QUESTION IS, DO YOU THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH SECULAR OR PUBLIC EDUCATION?>>Guest: I’LL START WITH A QUIP. I BELIEVE IT WAS CHURCHILL WHO SAID THAT ANY YOUNG PERSON THAT WAS NOT A SOCIALIST DOESN’T HAVE A HEART AND ANY MATURE PERSON THAT DIDN’T DROP SOCIALISM DOESN’T HAVE A MIND.>>Fr. Pacwa: YEAH, IF YOU ARE NOT A SOCIALIST BY 20, YOU HAVE NO HEART. AND IF YOU ARE NOT A CAPITALIST BY 40, YOU HAVE NO BRAINS.>>Guest: SO, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA. IT SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO THRIVE AND A CERTAIN DEGREE OF SOCIAL SHARING IS, OF COURSE, COMES OUT OF THE GOSPEL, IN ALL OF OUR SYSTEMS WE SHARE. FAMILIES ARE ALL ABOUT SHARING>>Fr. Pacwa: RIGHT. FAMILIES SHARE.>>Guest: AND SOCIALISM IN ALL OF ITS GENESIS HAS BEEN AN IDEOLOGY OR A WORLD VIEW THAT IS CLOSELY CONNECTED WITH THE DISPLACEMENT OF THE SACRED AND A DISPLACEMENT OF RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND OF THE FAMILY. THAT’S ALSO GONE.>>Guest: SO, I KNOW THAT IN THE 1970’S AND IN THE 1980’S, INDUSTRIALISTS IN ITALY WHO WERE BEING CHALLENGED BY THE WORKERS, JOINED BY THE COMMUNIST PARTIES WOULD SEND THE WORKERS TO VISIT THE SOVIET UNION. THEY PAID FOR THESE TRIPS SO THAT PEOPLE COULD SEE WHAT IT REALLY IS LIKE. BETWEEN ASTONIA, ALBANIA, CHINA AND VIETNAM, THERE’S 2 BILLION PEOPLE THAT HAVE OR HAVE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE. AND YES, THERE WERE CERTAIN GOOD THINGS THAT HAPPENED. BUT THE COST, THE HUMAN DEVASTATION –>>Fr. Pacwa: ENVIRONMENTAL DEVASTATION, ALL OF THIS, IT WAS HORRENDOUS.>>Guest: SOCIALISM OFTEN PROCEEDS TO A RADICAL LIMITATION OF FREEDOM. AND RADICAL LIMITATION OF OUR FREEDOM HAS THE QUALITY OF NEGATING OUR DIGNITY. WE NEED TO SHARE. BUT FORCING PEOPLE TO SHARE DOES NOT CREATE REAL CHARITY. AND IT UNDERMINES RESPONSIBILITY, IT UNDERMINES INITIATIVE. AND THERE WAS A GENERAL, GENERAL MAXIM IN THE SOVIET UNION. INITIATIVE IS PUNISHED. AND WE SEE THAT IN THE REALLY SOCIALIST-COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, PEOPLE SUFFER IN A TREMENDOUS WAY.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THINK, TOO, A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE BROUGHT INTO THE IDEA THAT THEY HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE. AND THE EXPENSE IS ENORMOUS TODAY COMPARED TO WHAT I PAID BACK WHEN I WAS AN UNDERGRAD. I MEAN, IT WAS $1,200 A YEAR. NOW, IT’S $65,000 A YEAR AT A LOT OF THESE UNIVERSITIES, FOR A YEAR. AND THEN, THE ECONOMY HAD A LOT OF COLLAPSE IN 2008 AND THEY COULDN’T GET JOBS. COULDN’T PAY THEIR LOANS. AND I THINK, THEY WERE SAYING, SOMEBODY HELP US. SO THIS IS PART OF THIS, THIS IS PART OF THE ATTRACTION.>>Fr. Pacwa: LET’S TAKE ANOTHER PHONE CALL. JASON, WHERE ARE YOU CALLING US FROM?>>Voice: I’M CALLING YOU FROM PENNSYLVANIA. I’M WANTING TO HAVE A QUESTION FOR MOST REVEREND ARCHBISHOP, AND I’M FRIENDS WITH FATHER WALTER CHIZIK, BAPTIZED IN THE SAME CHURCH THAT HE WAS. AND I LOVE THE CHURCH OF THE UKRAINIAN AND BYZANTINE BECAUSE IT GREW ME FONDER TO GOD AND HELPED ME SO MUCH. I LOVE IT SO MUCH, BEING A CATHOLIC. AND THE UKRAINIAN CHURCH IS SO BEAUTIFUL ON EASTER. AND ALSO, PLEASE PRAY FOR ME, BOTH FATHER AND ARCHBISHOP.>>Guest: OKAY. JASON, GOD BLESS YOU. I VISITED SHENANDOAH AND IT’S THE OLDEST STANDING CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE U.S. BEAUTIFUL GRANITE CHURCH. AND YOU THINK OF THE POOR COAL MINERS, OFTEN EXPLOITED AND PUT PENNY TO PENNY TO BUILD THESE INCREDIBLE CHURCHES. AND THE PARISH IS PROUD, THE FATHER WHO IS THE PASTOR THERE IS THE DEAN OF OUR SOUTH DEANERY, CALLED ANTHROCYTE AND NORTH ANTHROCYTE AND WE HAVE A INTERESTING CHURCH IN AUSTRALIA, AND MAYBE YOU HEARD OF IT. IT HAD TO BE EVACUATED BECAUSE THE COAL MINES CAUGHT FIRE AND CONTINUED TO BURN. SO, IT’S A LAND WHERE PEOPLE WORKED HARD, HAD GOOD FAMILY LIFE. AND THOSE TOWNS ARE FALLING ON HARD TIMES ALREADY FOR MANY DECADES BECAUSE THE COAL MINES ARE CLOSED. AND THERE IS NOT MUCH WORK. BUT THE FAITH REMAINS AND WE’RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING TO SUPPORT THESE PARISHES.>>IT’S SOMETHING HOW DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES HAVE A VARIETY OF, YOU KNOW, EMPHASIS. THAT’S ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT THE CHURCH. YOU KNOW, I NOTICED THAT WITH SOME OF THE EASTERN, ORIENTAL CHRISTIANS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. POLISH PEOPLE HAVE WONDERFUL CHRISTMAS SONGS. OUR CHRISTMAS CAROLS ARE FANTASTIC. BUT THEY ARE EITHER AND ESPECIALLY THEIR GOOD FRIDAY HYMNS ARE JUST AMAZING. AND THE EASTER CELEBRATION IN THE BYZANTINE LITURGY IS SO SPECIAL AND SO POWERFUL, JUST A POWERFUL, POWERFUL CELEBRATION. AND TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY THESE NUANCES, TO ME, ARE LIKE MAKING SURE THAT YOU PUT ALL OF THE HERBS INTO YOUR STEW SO THAT THE FLAVORS ARE RICH>>Guest: WE LITERALLY SHOUT FOR JOY.>>Fr. Pacwa: YES.>>Guest: A HUNDRED TIMES WE PROCLAIM, CHRIST IS RISEN AND THE PEOPLE RESPOND, INDEED HE IS RISEN AND WE GREET EACH OTHER UNTIL THE ASCENSION>>Fr. Pacwa: SAME IN THE EAST. [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] AND THEY GREET WITH, CHRIST IS RISEN, INDEED HE IS RISEN>>Guest: AND THAT’S THE JOY WE’RE CALLED TO BRING TO THE WORLD.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND FOR A CHURCH THAT’S HAD SO MUCH DEATH METED OUT TO IT, TO KEEP ON CELEBRATING THE RESURRECTION. THIS IS WHERE THE FAITH IS A GIFT OF GOD’S GRACE. AND THIS IS THE LIVELINESS. WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT WITH ANY IDOLS, NONSENSE, PLAYING GAMES, DANCING, ALL OF THIS. IT’S GOING TO BE JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. YOUR EXCELLENCIES EXCELLENCY SO GRATEFUL TO HAVE YOU HERE. AND IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN FOUNDATION, GO TO THE WEB SITE LISTED ON YOUR SCREEN, UCEF.ORG AND IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE UKRAINIAN GREEK CATHOLIC CHURCH, ARCHEPARCHY. NOW, YOUR EXCELLENCY, WOULD YOU GIVE US YOUR BLESSING PLEASE.>>Guest: MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU — OKAY. WE USUALLY STAND. OKAY. THE BLESSING OF THE LORD BE UPON YOU, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN.>>Fr. Pacwa: AMEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH EXCELLENCY. AND AGAIN, KEEP US IN BETWEEN YOUR GAS BILL, ELECTRIC BILL, CABLE BILL SO WE CAN KEEP BRINGING PROGRAMS LIKE THIS TO LIFT UP THE FAITH OF ALL OF US. GOD BLESS YOU. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC]

2 Comments on "EWTN Live – 2019-10-31 – 10/30/19 Archbishop Borys Gudziak"


  1. Very informative and inspiring.  A 56 minute engaging interview aired last night on EWTN nationwide.  Metropolitan ArchBishop Gudziak knows how to use the power of the media to tell the powerful story of Ukraine. He conveyed todays ongoing and serious challenges mixed with his well grounded faith, rooted in optimism and joy.  His message was very effective to millions of EWTN viewers.  He delved not only into Ukrainian church history, but more importantly, our 20 and 21 century history by effectively painting the impact of the Communist devastation on at least two generations of Ukrainians.  I questioned his statement about Catholicism and Christianity growing worldwide.  But I’ll replay 22:00 to 24:00. 

    The last 25 minutes were devoted to answering viewers excellent and thoughtful questions.  The one I liked was on the millennials embrace of socialism.  Well done, Metroplitan Archbishop Gudziak. I love your infectious joy! 

    Regardless of your religious beliefs, if you haven’t tuned in last night, I encourage you to watch this interview.   Share It.  Comment on it via YouTube.

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