Incels | ContraPoints

Incels | ContraPoints


[Mendelssohn: String Quartet No. 6 in F minor,
III. Adagio] Voiceover: “Imagine how a woman feels.” “Imagine how soft and warm her skin feels. Imagine the sweet smell of her perfume. Imagine her tenderly pressing her soft lips
against yours. Imagine her letting you get on top of her
and insert your [bleep] inside her, softly moaning as it slides in. Imagine the walls of her tight, soft, warm
[bleep] wrapped around every inch of your [bleep]. Imagine her breathing getting heavier with
every thrust. Imagine her wrapping her arms and legs around
you, holding you as close as she possibly can and begging you to [bleep] inside her
as you release every ounce of your [bleep] into her. Then imagine the feeling of pure satisfaction
and peace that comes afterwards, and looking beside you to see a person that cares about
you and has accepted you in the most intimate way possible.” “You will never get to experience this because
your skeleton is too small or the bones in your face are not the proper shape.” “Have a nice day.” [Melancholic chill jazz] Hello boys. Let’s talk about bone structure. [Chill music] There’s something basically Soviet about
the way the Internet names things. Stalin had portmanteaus like agitprop, politburo,
and kompromat, and we have webinar, podcast, and incel, short for involuntary celibate. The word incel was invented in the late 90s
by a lonely bisexual called Alana, who created a website called Alana’s Involuntary
Celibacy Project that was essentially a safe space for people who just couldn’t get it
in. But in our own miserable moment of Internet
history, the word “incel” refers to a more specific community of mostly heterosexual
men, centered around forums like Incel.me and r/braincels. This group has recently gotten a lot of bad
press because for the last few years they’ve been churning out mass murderers faster than
Marvel can make Avengers movies. But most incels aren’t violent killers. They’re just men who’ve formed an identity
around not getting laid. In this video I don’t want to mock incels
or lecture them or even sympathize with them. I just want to understand who they are and
why they’re like this. To start with, sometimes the best way to understand
a person’s world is to learn their language, and the language of the incels… well. You’ll see. 1st Base: Incelese Does it ever bother you that the word “women”
makes adult females sound just a little bit too human? Well incels have a solution to that. They’ve taken to calling women feeeeeemoooooids. The choice of vocabulary tells us how incels
think of women: not as sisters or mothers, and certainly not as autonomous people, but
as a kind of foreign, inscrutable object, comparable to a natural resource—unobtainium—to
which incels believe all men are entitled, and to which they feel they have been unjustly
denied. There’s a long tradition of nerdy men talking
about women in nerdily misogynistic ways. I’m reminded of famed rocket scientist Werner
von Braun’s remark about female astronauts: Voiceover: “We’re reserving 110 pounds
of payload for recreational equipment.” Which is not to say that alpha males are less
misogynistic than nerds, but simply that the nerds have a nerdy style of misogyny. Now “femoid” is about as neutral a term
as incels have for women and it’s only downhill from there. There’s the usual standbys: bitches, sluts,
whores, all conveying a searing resentment of female sexuality, the pinnacle of which
is represented by the bespoke incel coinage “roastie” which I’m sorry to inform
you refers to the incel belief that the human vulva become mutilated through repeated penetration
by different men—though not through repeated penetration by the same man interestingly—and
thereby come to resemble roast beef. Now by definition incels haven’t actually
observed any vaginas, but to incels anatomy is more a matter of metaphysical speculation
than crude science. Though if you ask me the right metaphor for
a veteran vag is not roast beef, but sour grapes. Of course, not all feeeemooooids are created
equal. There are various subspecies: [David Attenborough style voiceover] “The
Becky, or normie femoid is to be contrasted with the Stacy, or sexually desirable femoid,
whose distinguishing features include “makeup on point; Never works a day in her life; Naturally
curvy body gives men instant erections; big tits and ass show fertility.” Leave my buns alone you savages. The Stacy, naturally, has a male counterpoint,
whom incels call the Chad. [David Attenborough style voiceover] “A
Chad is a hunky alpha, whose hands are always prepared to grab nearby fertile pussy; he
has never heard a song in his entire life; he has a sloped forehead with a strong brow,
ram bow chin, strong jawline, flat occipital plate.” It must needs be remarked that the skull of
the Chad exhibiteth a brow ridge most pronounced whereas the skull of the virgin is most inadequate
in this regard, predisposing such specimens to an abject existence of lamentation and
cuckoldry. It’s time to talk about bone structure. According to a classic incel meme, [David Attenborough style voiceover] “The
difference between Chad and non-Chad is literally a few millimeters of bone.” I would like to propose a sociological theory. Foppington’s law: Once bigotry or self-loathing
permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance
is assigned to the shape of human skulls. Why skulls, you ask. Well, the best explanation I can come up with
is that a skull is inanimate and unchangeable. It’s therefore the perfect symbol of the
intrinsic and permanent characteristics that bigots like to assign to certain groups of
people. If you believe for example that a certain
race or gender is intellectually inferior, you can justify your belief by pointing to
the shape a skull and saying, well that’s the reason why, it’s just nature, there’s
nothing that can be done about it. And that is exactly the way incels think about
love and celibacy. Mankind is divided into two groups of people,
the Chads with the fuckable skulls and the incels whose bones come up a few millimeters
short. Corndog anyone? I’m really hungry. Of course it’s not just the skulls the
incels blame for their sexlessness. They have a whole dictionary of jargon explaining
the causes of involuntary celibacy. Heightcels are incel due to their inferior
stature. Whereas mentalcels can’t attract women because
of mental illness or autism, or they’re addicts and then called drugcels. Wristcels, on the other hand, are doomed by
their overly delicate wrists. Now, obsessing about your wrist size does
seem a little weird. Voiceover: “Oh yeah? Is it a little weird that the average dildo
has more girth than my wrist? Is it weird at all that some men have thicker
dicks than my wrist? But yeah, obviously ‘obsessing’ about
my tiny wrists that are smaller than even many women’s is completely irrational body
dysmorphia and the reason why no woman wants to be with me or even talk to me is my shitty
personality even though literal 80 IQ men who have nothing to talk about except who
won the game last night are still able to attract a loving partner.” …Interesting. A significant number of incels are not white,
in which case their unfuckability is attributed to race, and they are accordingly termed,
apologies in advance, blackcels, ricecels, currycels, and so on. Which is not to say all non-white men are
celibate. There are of course the occasional Chads of
color, with their superior skulls and towering stature, whom the incels have christened Tyrones,
Changs, and Chadpreets. I’m so sorry. So you can be incel because of your looks,
your height, your mind, or your race, but what unites them all is the conviction that
love and sex are forever out of reach. Unless of course you delusionally imagine
that you can “ascend,” that is escape your inceldom. If you falsely and pathetically believe that
there is any possibility of improvement, well, that makes you the lowest of the low, a sad
and sorry hopecel. Second base: The Red Pill So we have the building blocks of the incel
worldview: the Stacys, the Chads, the incels, and the normies. From these elements, incels have constructed
a theory of human nature and of sexuality, which they call the Red Pill. Incels share the Red Pill worldview with the
rest of the manosphere, that is, pick-up artists, men’s rights activists, and the voluntary
celibate community known as Men Going Their Own Way, abbreviated MGTOW. According to Red Pill theory, women are by
nature hypergamous. Hypergamy, new Greek for marrying above, refers
to the practice of seeking relationships with men above one’s social status, and also,
in incel usage, above one’s attractiveness. According to incels, physical attractiveness
is naturally distributed equally between the sexes. So if you were to assign numerical ratings
to attractiveness, as incels like to do, there would be about as many say 8/10 women as 8/10
men. Incels believe that in a just world, a 5/10
man would naturally wind up in a relationship with his looksmatch, that is, a 5/10 woman,
equivalently attractive to himself. But sadly, this just system has been ruined
by hypergamous women, who, regardless of their own attractiveness, are only interested in
dating Chad. Incels sometimes call this the 80/20 rule,
the idea that only the top 20% of men will ever be desired by women. Now since most heterosexual men do end up
in relationships with women, you might be raising your eyebrow at that idea. But incels have an explanation. According to the Red Pill theory, women often
pursue a mating strategy called alpha fux beta bux. This means that in her 20s a woman will, as
incels say, ride the cock carousel, sleeping with as many Chads as possible. But as she ages into her 30s she will settle
down with a beta normie, whom she’s not really attracted to, but whom she will use
for financial support, all the while continuously cuckolding him on the alpha cock carousel,
before inevitably abandoning him, taking him for everything he’s worth in a divorce settlement,
and running off to the Mediterranean with all the children and a new Chad boyfriend,
while the beta cuck is left behind to fester in alimony payments, solitude, and poverty. So the upshot of the Red Pill theory is that
for men, there are three possible outcomes. Either you’re an incel, doomed to a lifetime
of excruciating loneliness and resentment, or you’re a normie, destined to wind up
in a sexless marriage with an unfaithful wife, who will divorce you, win custody of the children
and run off will all your money. Or you could be an alpha—an independent,
promiscuous man who sleeps with lots of women and forms attachments to none of them. In the Red Pill philosophy there are two ways
to become alpha. The first is simply to be a Chad by nature. The second is to become a pick-up artist. Redpilled pick-up artists believe basically
the same things about women that incels believe, that they are hypergamous, duplicitous, and
fuckable, but not lovable. The difference is that pick-up artists are
not celibate, in fact they try to have sex with as many women as possible by following
a series of strategies and scripts known as “game” as described by the book of that
title, as well as by the red-pilled pick-up artist Roosh V, author of a book called— Bang, a new mascara from Benefit. So the tube is bomb, I am living. Let’s see what kind of wand it has. Ooo, it’s so big. I wonder what Roosh is up to lately. I bake my own bread. Yes I’m outing myself as a baker, as someone
who likes to cook. I’m not a woman. I am ultra masculine, as you can see, but
baking and cooking in general is a scientific thing. And men like scientific things. I used to be a scientist. Well, Roosh you know what? If it means you leave women alone then I hope
you enjoy your new life as an ultra-masculine baker— sorry, I mean bread scientist. So remember the red pill is the realization
that women are hypergamous by nature, 20% or less of men are really attractive to women,
dating is a sexual marketplace, and feminism is a pretext for enabling women to behave
however they want while consigning men to emasculation and impotence. The black pill is the additional realization
that one’s place in the sexual marketplace is genetically determined, that one is a permanent
virgin, that sex and relationships are forever out of reach, and hence that happiness is
impossible and there’s nothing one can do except Lie Down and Rot. The black pill is, essentially, dogmatic hopelessness
about dating and about life in general. It is the pinnacle of what psychotherapists
call catastrophizing: a cognitive distortion where anxiety or depression leads you to infer
apocalyptic conclusions from mundane setbacks and anxieties. For instance a catastrophizing person might
begin with the thought, oh no, I’m going to be late for work, and from there infer:
my boss is going to be angry, I’m going to lose my job, I’m not going to able to
get another job, I’m going to be unemployed forever, my family will starve, oh god we’re
all going to die. Each step in the sequence is sort of plausible,
but the leap from step one to step seven is completely absurd. This is exactly how the black pill works. You start with experiences of rejection and
isolation. From there you infer that you are unattractive
to women, that you will never be attractive to any woman, that you will be forever alone,
that you will always be unhappy, that women did this to you, that feminism empowered women
to do this to you, that the social trends that made this possible are only getting worse,
that humanity itself is doomed and your only option is to lie down and rot. Of course not all incels take things quite
so far, but a lot of them do. On incel forms suicidal ideation is very common,
and posts are often tagged “sui fuel” or “rope fuel” meaning that they make
you want to kill yourself, usually because they’re reminders of how hopeless the incel
situation is, or how devastating it is that incels are missing out on the incredible bliss
of sex and romance. Now if you suggest to incels that posting
sui fuel on forums already populated with lonely and depressed people is maybe not the most responsible idea, they usually say that ah it’s just dark humor, it’s just a cope, throw
us a bone here. But a lot of the suicidal stuff shows no signs
of humor, and it’s common to see people express pretty extreme states of depression,
which is not surprising, since hopelessness is the logical conclusion of the black pill
worldview. One’s possibility for happiness is determined
by the genetics of height, frame, and facial bone structure, and if you don’t have these
gifts there’s no relief but to cope or rope. Now—it’s pretty tempting to just mom the
shit out of these kids. You want to grab them by their Black Ops t-shirts,
shake them a bit and tell them that there are millions of men with small wrists and
weak chins getting laid every day, that they’re their own worst enemies, that they need to
get off the computer, go outside, make some friends, stop hating women, get some hobbies,
and who knows maybe then they’ll develop a disposition that women find a little more
approachable. Essentially you want to tell them, clean your
room bucko. In fact for the young men in this demographic
who are receptive to that kind of advice, Jordan Peterson is probably helpful. Because he’s telling them a lot of what
they need to hear, and he’s kind of a sexist old man so they might actually listen. But most incels don’t want to hear this
kind of advice. In fact, they view it as essentially a microaggression. You are, in effect, chadsplaining their oppression
to them when you give basic advice like be more confident, take a shower, to people who
have already experienced a lifetime of rejection and isolation, and who believe they’ve already tried everything. So they despise this kind of advise, and devote
endless posts to bitterly mocking the futility and insensitivity of it. Voiceover: “Just go out to parties, bro!” “Instead of hating on women all day why
don’t you losers just try being confident like this average looking guy? Confidence is key.” “You incels need some hobbies. Try reading some books, women love INTELLIGENCE! It works for me bro!” “Aw, you just need to get out more.” ♪ No one knows what it’s like to be hated
♪ To incels, their worldview seems ironclad. It has built-in defenses against anyone who
would try to change their minds. So if you want to understand incels, and in
particular if you want to understand why their community produces so many mass murderers,
you have to understand that the black pill is more than the dogma that you can’t get
laid. It’s also the dogma that because you can’t
get laid, you can never be happy. So what we have on our hands here is more
than a bunch of angry Internet misogynists. It’s, at worst, a kind of a death cult,
complete with an eternal hell and an omnipotent enemy. And it’s not surprising that that state
of mind leads a few of them to conclude that since triumph is impossible why not try revenge? Third Base: Tinder is Garbage I know I said I wasn’t gonna sympathize
with incels, and I know they don’t want my sympathy anyway, and I know it’s bad praxis to sympathize with the devil— but on some level I can’t help it. The Internet is for introverts, so I’m sure
a lot of people watching this feel the same way. I bet some of you have been this guy. I’ve been this guy. So look, I’m gonna tell you something I’ve
never really come out about on this channel, so this is like a really vulnerable moment
for me, but I used to live as a man. And I’m not proud of that but I’m ready
to move on if you’re ready to forgive. I’m in the unusual situation of being a
woman who dates men who used to be a man who dates women. What kind of fucked up shit is that? Is that even allowed? Alright calm down lesbian stans I’m still
attracted to women, and those who lieth betwixt, cats, the inherent eroticism of the sea. [Mendelssohn, Hebrides Overture]
Voiceover: “Mmmm yeah. Don’t you just wanna get in there.” “Take me mommy!” But I have been on a heterosexual kick lately. “I gotta get my hetero on!” What I’m getting at is I’ve used Tinder
both as a man seeking women, and as a woman seeking men. And I think I that gives me some relevant experiences. When you’re a man the strategy is you’ve
gotta send a lot of messages because women get a lot of messages, and then you’ve just
gotta try to be less of an ogre than the other fuckboys. Whereas if you’re a woman, you get to lie
recumbent on your chaise longue and receive the inquiries. Let’s see how we’re doing here. How many men have liked me on Tinder? I’m paying $30 for this information so this
better be good. I have 2500 likes. That’s a lot of Baltimorean men who swiped
right on a tran. What a divine city! [Game show music] Awww that’s so nice of them to be interested
in me. Let’s see what kind of messages I got. DICK OR NO DICK? PRE-OP OR POST-OP? DID YOU CUT YOUR DICK OFF? Oh my god. I’m gonna cut it off, okay? Jesus. I will let you smash my pussy so so hard, if
you just be patient. it’s a whole process. That’s not a pussy, that’s a fuck hole. You’ll never know what it means to squeeze
life out of your sacred passage. Well, that’s true. I’m not squeezing any life out unless something
goes very seriously wrong. And I assure you that none of the passages
I have down there ever have been or ever will be sacred. Abigail leave my fuck hole out of this. When I first started using this app I was
messaging a guy who seemed super chill, he was gonna take me to a concert, and I was
like that seems like a lot for a first date but okay I’ll try it. 15 minutes after we agreed to that he sends me a message. “What color panties are you wearing? I would love to smell them.” …Can we get coffee first? The hell of it is, I probably would’ve let
him smell my panties. But this is a thing you bring up on the third
fuck. You don’t open with panty sniffing. Like the only point of in-app messaging is
for me to figure out if you’re gonna murder me, and you’re already fucking it up. So this is the experience of women on Tinder. We’re drowning in dick and most of it is
terrible. Not all, I do have some very sweet messages, and
I haven’t used this app in a couple months, so if I didn’t respond to you or if we didn’t
match, it’s not becaues I rejected you, it’s because I don’t like the app. People screenshot my profile and post it online, and they call me contrapoints in app, and
like— I’m just too famous for this shit. My life is hard. So girls, we do a lot of complaining about
the firing squad of bad dicks that’s constantly pointed at us on dating apps. But how would you feel if instead of that
you were just getting radio silence like the incels get? I can’t speak for other women, but personally,
I prefer the firing squad of dicks. You know. At least these pricks care enough about my
pussy to be an asshole about my dick. I feel sorry for men on dating apps I really
do. They have to deal with a lot of rejection,
and that must be difficult. And these apps are especially brutal to people
who aren’t photogenic. If you’re meeting people at a bar or a party,
you might strike up a conversation with someone you’re not initially physically attracted
to. But then maybe they’re super funny, or charming,
or maybe they’re attracted to me—and that’s an attractive quality in another
person that they appreciate how beautiful I am. But on Tinder, you’re just browsing a catalog
of faces, and gatekeeping who even gets to talk to you in the first place. Red-pillers have a really gross way of talking
about dating in terms of “sexual market value” but like, dating kind of is a marketplace,
or at least you can analyze it like one. And our culture is so visual, and these apps
are so picture-centered that bone structure, like it’s not the only thing that matters,
but it matters a great deal. And this is where I do have sympathy for the
incels, because as a trans woman I know what it’s like to obsess over millimeters of
bone. I had to interrupt work on this video to go
to a consultation for facial feminization surgery so that I can going to pay luxury
car amounts of money to shave off a few millimeters of bone here and there because it must needs
be remarked that the skull of the female exhibiteth a brow ridge less pronounced. I mean I’m just as obsessed with bone structure
as the goddamn incels, because I think certain parts of my face make me look like a man,
and I worry about it every day. We’re all obsessed with the bones honey. We all have bones inside us, we all love touching
bones. [sensual whispering] “You want to take a
measurement from the supraorbital ridge to the lambdoid suture, and multiply that figure
by pi to calculate what we call the Chad circumference.” Why is no one talking about the Chad circumference? 4th base: Just the tip There’s another way I think my experience
as a trans woman is relevant to the incel discussion, and that’s that I know delusional
self-loathing when I see it. I’m far from the first to point out that
the “supreme gentleman” incel mass murderer Eliot Rodger was, apart from his narcissistic
psychopath personality, an eminently bangable twink. Now I’m not gonna show you pictures of incels,
but on their forums they do sometimes post selfie threads. And you can’t say this on incel forums without
enraging them, but in confidence from one pretend clinician to another, let me tell
you that the truth about incels is that almost all of them are completely normal looking guys. But of course that’s not the feedback they
get from other incels. The feedback they get is that their chins
are weak, their hair is thin, their skin is garbage and there’s no hope whatsoever,
no woman will ever love them, they are truecels with no option but to lie down and rot. And the interesting thing is, those guys post selfies to those threads knowing that that’s the feedback that they’re gonna
get. So why? Why do they do it? Well, I’ll tell you a little story. There is a website on the Internet called
4chan.org that has a board called LGBT. A few years ago this was used mainly by the
25 gay men who actually like Milo Yiannopoulos, but recently it’s used mostly by “men”
who are entertaining the notion of becoming women, and by early transition trans women. So the board is jokingly called TTTT. Now I’ve recently moved beyond that first
stage of my transition, but the memory is still fresh, and let me tell you, it is a painful,
awkward, humiliating stage of life. So the trans women of TTTT are tragic, they’re
basically still in man mode, which is why they’re using 4chan, and I bring them up
because they remind me a lot of incels. For incels the core frustration is that they
can’t get laid. For TTTT it’s that they can’t pass as
female. Both groups post selfies knowing they’re
going to get brutal unconstructive feedback. And both groups have a weird vocabulary with
which to express their anxieties. For instance on TTTT a major piece of jargon
is hon, a slur used by trans women for other trans women, which basically means that you
look like a man in a dress, which is what every trans woman is afraid of. And there’s another commonality with incels
too, with all bigots and self-loathers, which if you’ve been paying attention, you’ve
already guessed. Voiceover: “You will never be seen as a
woman because of your head size. Have all the surgeries in the world, your
massive man noggin will stay the same.” “lel, this freak thinks he has very soft
facial features. His head is fucking huge, lel and the hons
on reddit are hugboxing him and telling him that there are women with big heads. No, there aren’t. There aren’t fucking women with heads as
big as that and ffs won’t change shit. You might as well repress. You transition with a man’s head. You will be clocked, you will be looked at
as a freak, you will never be seen as a legit woman. 100%” “THIS is why I am not transitioning. Thank you Skull-people for showing me the
way and that no matter what I do I will always be a manly man skull-wise. You saved me the embarrassment of being a
literal big-headed man in a dress. Tis evident the cranial vault of the autogynephile
be much more voluminous and the facial plane wider— It always comes back to the skulls. Every time. The other interesting thing about TTTT is
I used to get posted there a lot. For a while I had some stans on the board
who basically viewed me as inspiration. Yikes. Because of course that kind of post is frowned
upon. If I’m not looked at as a big-skulled manly
freak, if my transition is going well, that means that some of their transitions
might go well too, and that is an unacceptable conclusion for a community founded on self-loathing
and hopelessness. So it was necessary for the rest of the board
to explain why I didn’t pass, why I would never pass, and why anyone
who looked less good than me shouldn’t even fucking think about it. They shouldn’t transition at all,
they should just repress, they should lie down and rot. And I used to read this stuff all the time. Like I would specifically seek out threads about
me. Which might seem strange considering I had
hundreds of fans telling me I was a gorgeous goddess every day. So why did I turn away from that to intentionally
seek out this dismal den of hons talking about how my giant hon skull is clockable at a thousand
paces, and my voice sounds like a ridiculous muppet falsetto hybrid of Mickey Mouse and
Winnie the Pooh. Well basically there was part of my brain
that just simply refused to believe it when people told me I was gorgeous. And for semi-plausible reasons. A lot of trans people on the internet tell other trans
people they look gorgeous no matter what they look like. That’s where the word hon comes from. You look great hon. So what TTTT is saying about reddit hugboxing
is true to some extent. There is a kind of a priori and dogmatic flattery
that prevails in some trans spaces. So I came to regard all compliments as “everyone
is beautiful” politically correct cuckoldry. And there would be this thrill of going to
TTTT and reading other people saying what my deepest anxieties told me was really true. And that was always painful but there was
a kind of pleasure too. There was a rush. It’s exciting to burst out of the politically
correct bubble and say what you’re really thinking: that personality doesn’t matter
because big-skulled Chads get all the girls, that ContraPoints is a big-skulled hon with
a voice like nails on a chalkboard. And at first I justified the habit by telling
myself I was just doing research. I have to keep tabs on what the bigots are
saying, that’s simply my job. But soon I realized it wasn’t just research,
and it was infecting me away from the computer. This ridiculous vocabulary—hons, AGP—was
popping up in my head at unexpected times. It was really starting to color how I thought
about myself, and worse, it was starting to infect how I thought about other trans
women. And that’s the moment I realized I need
to stop looking at this stuff right now or I’m going to become a monster, and once
that happens it’s going to be very difficult to fix. This is exactly how the incel blackpill works. There’s something infectious about these
vocabularies. Like on the days I’ve been working on this
video, I’ll go out at night and these words just involuntarily show up in my thoughts. That bartender is such a Chad, he’s totally
height mogging that tiny cuck. And the tragic thing is some incels don’t
realize what this is doing to their minds until it’s too late. Voiceover: “Let’s face it; blackpills
are sui fuel, and a lot of us can’t handle them. I gleefully indulged in this subreddit the
moment I discovered it, since I loved uncovering secrets that society had been hiding from
me, but it has affected my mental health in a bad way. I made my first call to the suicide hotline
a few weeks ago, and I’ve never needed to do that before. I could always talk myself out of it through
logic, but my mind is ruined now.” This is a form of what psychologists are calling
digital self-harm, prototypically teens who leave themselves abusive
comments from sock-puppet accounts. But the more sophisticated adult version involves
intentionally seeking out abusive and disparaging comments about yourself made by other people. I have a long history of doing this, intentionally
looking for abusive comments, especially ones that cut to the core of my deepest insecurities
and fears. Why? I don’t know. Why do people cut themselves? Part of it is what we could call masochistic
epistemology: whatever hurts is true. I’ve recently gotten much better about
this. I haven’t been to any of the worst places
in a couple months, and my mental health is much improved. So, incels. I’m not going to respond to your worldview
like its an intellectual position worthy of rational debate. Because these ideas and arguments, you’re
not using them the way rational people use arguments. You’re using them as razor blades to abuse
yourselves. And I know because I’ve done the exact same
thing. The incel worldview is catastrophizing. It’s an anxious death spiral. And the solution to that has to be therapeutic,
not logical. A lot of you are lonely. You’ve been bullied and neglected. You feel left behind by society. But what you’re doing when you’re reading incel
forums, is you’re slowly internalizing a cruel and distorted way of looking at yourselves,
and at other people in your situation, and at women. And you’re forming mental habits that are
going to make it very difficult for you to live a happy life. So what you have to do is get off those forums
as fast as possible. I’m going to post a link in the description of
this video to instructions on how to block certain websites from your computer, because
for me, that’s what it took. 5th base: … anal So the incel reddit/transgender 4chan analogy
has a limit, and that limit is that for a significant subset of the incel community,
the primary hatred is not directed at themselves, but at women. And they really hate women. Like I’m basically a professional internet
bigotry scholar at this point, I look at this kind of stuff all the time, but researching
this video I was honestly kind of shocked by the intensity of misogyny on incel forums. I won’t show the worst of it but we’re
talking blaming women for rape, saying they deserve to be raped, calls for state-mandated
girlfriends and sex slaves, but most of all just a kind of generalized misinformed rage. Voiceover: “I hate women. I really do. Every time I look at them, my blood pressure
shoots through the roof. When they’re gabbing on the cell phone about
Paris Hilton. When they’re adjusting their lipstick and
taking up my time rifling through their stupid purse. When they whine to me about their period. When they blither on and on about some artist/film
director/musician nobody gives a flipping fuck about. When they cry and expect your personal sympathy. But most of all I hate them because they’re
smug hyperactive little bitches made that way by our shithole society. Look what uncontrolled feminism and the media
has done— Hi Stacy, it’s Tracy. Well I was at the mall with Amber, Heather,
Jenna, and Trish and we were talking about Paris Hilton, a very relevant cultural figure
in 2018. They live in this cartoon caricature world
where it’s easy to avoid thinking of women as fully human. And that’s where my sympathy runs dry. Because this kind of hatred just needs a spark
to turn to violence. So incels, I know you’re not gonna listen
to anything I say, and you’re just gonna say I’m a tranny and faggot and a degenerate,
and to that I say how dare you say things that are entirely
true. But also: volcel if you wouldn’t bitches. And I know you don’t listen to suggestions
about you could probably actually have healthy relationships. So no one can really reach you until you get
out of those forums and allow yourselves to be reached. But by way of a closing remark I guess I simply
invite you to consider that you don’t even need a warm body or a sex robot to satisfy
the erotic longing. You know when I was your age in 1975 every
teenage boy had a stratocaster in his bedroom [shredding] that was the outlet for his sexual
frustration. What I’m suggesting is the manosphere exists
because rock n roll is dead. But there’s other options. Think about eroticism of a rainstorm, the
clap of thunder, the rustle of the leaves, the steam rising off
the warm pavement [sniff]. And whether you’re a Chad, a Stacy, an
incel, or a hon, you can always return to the caress of our dark mother, the sea, whose
salty embrace envelops every contour of your naked body. [Mendelssohn, Hebrides Overture] Voiceover: “Whew is it hot in here or is
it just me?”

100 Comments on "Incels | ContraPoints"


  1. I came to learn about Incels since it's a new term to pop up for me, and oh boy I didn't expect all this pent up sexual frustration and angst.

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  2. “It’s all about the booooooooone structure and the jawliiiiiiiine” take a look at the theatre kids going after joey richter and then consider how much people give a shit about jawlines my dude

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  3. Quando eu pensei que já tinha visto de tudo nessa vida vem um bando de homem culpar todo mundo, o mundo inteiro, pq eles não conseguem sexo. É muita autopiedade misturada com autodesprezo. Pq na cabeça deles o mundo os deve sexo? Pqp

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  4. Baking in a bread machine isn't science. I've never used one, but my understanding is that everything is dumped into the receptacle, and the "baker" waits for the timer to go off.

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  5. "What I'm saying is the manosphere exists because rock and roll is dead"

    Rock and roll isn't dead, you take that back!

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  6. Good lord, less than 5 minutes in and I just want to tell everybody how to get out of their deterministic hellholes. Life doesn't have to be like this at all… sigh…

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  7. Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemoid.

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  8. I don't know if I ever made it all the way to the end of this video till right now. The final lines are oddly transcendent. A record scratch of beauty.

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  9. You are taking the internet too seriously. It's just a bunch of people posting shit anonymously. Things they would never say or do in real life. I won't be surprised if these so called incels are just normal people we meet everyday. Is it rational to be really hurt by thought crimes?

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  10. A science podcast about alpha males sent me here and I didn't realize she was trans until she said it! "I care for bone structure as much as Incels" her viewpoint made the subject even more interesting.

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  11. Sex trafficking is likely a result of rich incel type people.
    Also that tttt type culture can breed hatred of women too, hatred bred of envy. Amab people who feel they should be women but think they can’t because of their appearance can start having the mindset of “why do women get to be so lucky to be women and be beautiful when I’m stuck looking like an ugly guy?”

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  12. It kinda sounds sad that homophobic sexist alpha men are always picking at genetic/unseen parts from the human body and complain about them

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  13. TW: I talk about bigoted views I held about misogyny and sexual assault.

    Contrapoints, I’d like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this video. Since around late 2016, I was what you could call a female incel. Even though I wouldn’t identify as such, it was what I was. As a bi girl, I’d blame women AND men, thinking they were all stupid sl*ts, because I was alone. I saw all my classmates enter relationships and think it was unfair that I was still alone.

    I started linking every problems I had, every single thing that made me sad, to the fact that I’m an undesirable virgin. I thought HORRIBLE things about victims of sexual harassment (or worse). As in I wish I were them because I thought that would have meant that someone, anyone would have desired me.

    In a strange twist of irony, I couldn’t even really find “comfort” in the incel community, because of the implied fact that women can date whenever, whoever they want, and that ONLY men struggle with rejection. I thought that I was extra-shitty because as a girl (who wasn’t out as bi at the time), not only have I only faced rejection, but nobody has ever expressed interest in me.

    Through therapy (unrelated to everything I wrote previously), maturing, and A LOT of education, I had started to grow out of my incel phase. But your video was the real coup de grâce to my old abhorrent views. While I had seen lots of other takes about incels, they were all about mocking and ridiculing them. Don’t get me wrong, they totally deserve it. But your video was the first that (indirectly) spoke to me as a human being. That saw right through the heart of the problem: self-loathing externalized as a hatred of others. The thrill of going on forums to see why virgins always stay virgins. The sl*t shaming. I was shocked to see how I was catastrophizing almost daily and hadn’t realized it.

    Nowadays I feel better. I have accepted the fact that it’s likely I’ll never have a romantic partner, and although it makes me sad, I’m okay with that. I have a lot (for me) of friends whom I care deeply about and who care about me. I’m studying in a field that makes me happy. I still go to therapy and feel sad about lots of things, but I know that being in a relationship wouldn’t magically fix these things. I don’t think people are wh*res anymore, I don’t envy victims. Basically I’m not such an asshole anymore. I also recognize that as a cis white (upper) middle class girl I am privileged, and instead of being ashamed of that, I use this to educate myself and try to help those who are less fortunate than me.

    One year later I’m coming back to this video. I’ve never wrote (or talked) that much about my feelings. Of course all the horrible things I thought when I was an incel were secret, so nobody knew my fucked-up mindset. My long-ass babble will probably be lost in the sea of other comments, but it’s fine. This was cathartic to write. If by some miraculous chance you ever see this comment, thank you again Contrapoints. You can change assholes. And if you can change assholes, you can protect the lives of these assholes’ victims.

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  14. Am i even allowed to be a black pill incel if i don't hate women or blame them for my situation?

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  15. vontade de vomitar assistindo esse vídeo.

    Essa mina nojenta falando com desgosto e do outro lado um monte de feio puto com o sistema feminista

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  16. Thankyou, I’ve genuinely been looking for a detailed explanation of what it means to be an incel.

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  17. I didn’t know she was a man. I was thinking she’s pretty hot and now that I know she’s was once a man, shes still pretty hot. This was a very enlightening video. I’ve been fighting masochistic epistemology (my inner struggle), it’s really nice when someone can articulate your struggle.

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  18. I had the bad experience of having a super attractive male roommate. Very confident, chest out, rich family with lots of new clothes that fit him. Tall, strong willed. When me and him were out and about I was literally invisible next to him. They only spoke to him, remembered his name but not mine. Many women we met overtly flirted with him, leaving me to awkwardly walk away. Didn't know what to do. People found me kind, cute, helpful, competent. He was exciting, honest and cool. He was really nice to me and encouraged me a lot. I grew a lot that year, had my first half attempt at a romance, but the entire experience hurt me a lot, too. It's so easy to become bitter, self-loathing and all that. I've been close to the edge many times.
    I know many women go through things like this too. Having a hot friend, being shy and anxious to the point of unavaliability. Happens to a lot of people.
    I hope we all find our way through life. That we are able to be voulnerable and brave.

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  19. Real question: why don't they have plastic surgery? It won't solve their problems but it would contribute something interesting to the dialogue in the same way the accessibility of female plastic surgery has complicated (and even demystified) cultural beliefs tying women's value to physical appearance. Basically I just want someone to write a real or fake post on the incel forums entitled "I got surgery to become a Chad" and see what the response is. If you see something as fluid rather than fixed, maybe it becomes possible to rule it out as some unchangeable source of your pain.

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  20. I thought Roastie refers to When The Friars Club does a celebrity roast, except in this case, they are "roasting" females.

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  21. Ngl that bit about the sea got me a bit hot and bothered and I am not sure what that implies.

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  22. i don't even go on direct incel forums. rather i was following inteltears and niceguys on reddit and viewing tons of this stuff daily. i was mostly just doing it cause i enjoyed laughing at incels but recently ive been having serious self esteem issues and am having a hard time dealing. watched this and a lot of the things i was worrying make sense when traced back to the communities i follow. im out. unfollowed all subreddits ive been on and im not checking thsi out anymore. makes a ton of sens

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  23. A prefatory comment before getting to the heart of this… There are many, many things that are advocated by so-called "incels" that I completely disagree with. For instance, the idea that women have some sort of obligation to sexually interact with men. As well, I have no sympathy for the idea of turning back the clock, and confining women to some predetermined role that is subservient to men.
    Having said that, I have to say that this video is a masterful example of how the reality of a situation can be obscured by a lot of semi-optimistic idiocy.
    The problem that I have with it is that it's remarkably similar to the same kind of myopic soliloquies that I used to hear from adults whenever I pointed out the kinds of cruelty that are rampant in public schools; (among those cruelties, by the way, is the fact that certain kinds of girls are the experts at bullying boys. I mean by harassment and insults.) These arguments were largely empty of any factual content, and rested on reiterating a lot of platitudes.

    And, that's exactly what I see here. (That, and the fact that this women is clearly conceited and entirely self-referential in her outlook.) People talk about "blaming the victim" when it comes to rape, etc. No one is paying attention to the fact that much the same kind of dynamic is at work when we try and paint all the discords of these men as arising from their own attitude.
    I have spent some time in their forums; and yes, I do have a problem with many aspects of that sub-culture. As I said, I am a staunch proponent of equal rights for all. But, the idea that these men got where they are entirely because of their "bad attitude" is an absurdity. And, one that ignores that reality of what many of them have gone through.
    Another aspect of this prejudicial thought can be seen in the fact that via social media and many other formats, the point is incessantly underscored that being a white male (of a certain kind; attractive and/or wealthy white males who tow the line with the current paradigm are exempted) is a crime in and of itself. Long ago, feminism predicted and oriented itself toward disenfranchising this element of society. Okay, well they were struggling for their own freedom, so I am not going to debate the right or wrong of it. I do, however, ask the question of exactly what they thought would happen when they succeeded?
    Did they really imagine that it would all just go smoothly, and their would be no contention?

    The things is, feminism for the most part is not satisfied with equality. They are arguing these days for female supremacy. To be sure, this is not any kind of an official party-line. But, just go online and review how many sites dedicated to feminist thought are actually arguing for this.
    Part of that agenda is this relentless campaign to assign all that is wrong with the world to men; and in particular to white men of a certain social strata. The level of invective that this has reached is that of sheer malevolent lunacy. Do feminist really think that this is going to improve the world?
    I am setting all of this down because this treatment (the equation of white men/incels with the ills of the world), is not only unjust, but is actually polarizing; it's driving more and more men into the response of becoming misogynistic.

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  24. The Nazis claimed that life was a 0 sum game; that the freedom of the German people was predicated on the oppression of others. The hope of democracy is that somehow, the different needs of different people could be balanced; that a compromise could be made and maintained.
    The current dynamics of our society (and, the drive of so-called progressives is among these) is moving more and more toward the Nazi view.

    And yet, we are somehow surprised that extremism of one kind or another is always in the foreground.
    If this country really wants to pull itself out of the downward spiral its in (which will end in a police-state of one kind or another), then we need to take a serious look at how the scapegoating method is used by both sides of the political spectrum.

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  25. I find incels horrible yet interesting. Their problems are self made yet they utterly fail to see it… They are disgusting in their language and thoughts… But I find it interesting.

    This was a great video.

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  26. incels are so stupid, girls are never actually attracted to boys, that's so stupid, there is nothing special about a boy, girls are only attracted to power(mostly money) because they like feeling small, weak, submissive and protected which is pretty gross btw

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  27. I'm so glad you mentioned the Tinder thing. I've talked to so many women about Tinder and their experience with it. Sure, women get a lot more matches and attention on Tinder, but a good amount of those matches are low quality sleazeballs. I've talked to women that have spent months or even years using Tinder because it's so hard to meet a nice normal non creepy guy with similar interests on that app.

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  28. I've been listening to this video for 9 minutes and I could not shake this feeling and thinking "I know her from somewhere. She looks like someone I know. The voice sounds familiar. Someone… from the old days of Youtube debates. Back when flagging and false DMCA claims were considered appropriate responses to a video you disagree with. Then it hit me. Nykytyne2!!!!" What a pleasant surprise and blast from the past!
    How have you been? 😀 It's been like… 8 years since I dropped out of that community. Basically when all the religious antagonists left YT and YT Atheists started finding out that they disagree with each other on almost every level and that not buying a claim is as much of a "community" as not collecting stamps is a mutual hobby. I'm glad your production value went up from a 360p black and white webcam to this very colorful and prop-heavy setting 😀 And look at you!!! 750k subs. That's fantastic ! Real business lady right here.

    Now I shall go back to your pretty damn spot-on characterization of the Incel community. I know that this video is over a year old. However, I hope you see this comment. Are you still friends with the crew from back then? Like GhostOfDayInPerson and those people?
    Cheers!

    P.S: Coming back after watching it to the end I'm blown away. What a masterpiece of a video. You, ma'am, have taken quantum leaps. It's like watching a movie. The entertainment value is on par with the poignancy and accuracy of the points made. Looks like I'm resubbing after 8 years 😀 Fuck, I'm impressed!

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  29. Nobody has to be involuntary celibate! When you are so worried about "not getting it in" why not visit a prostitute?
    Or is this about not being loved?

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  30. "At least these pricks care enough about my pussy to be an asshole about my dick"
    Natalie is a fucking genius

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  31. IM WRITING MY RESEARCH PAPER ON THIS SHIT !!! U FUCKING SLAPPPED SO HARD PLS COME BACK WE LOVE YOU SO MUCH :))))) <3

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  32. Im actually a heterosexual women and for some reason I would love to date her. Not sure if incels appreciate that kind of information….

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  33. 23:00 It sounds like the ~2005 Ana (anorexia) websites which "glorified" body dismorphia.. With waves of suicides and death by malnutrition.

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  34. I really don't find big muscles attractive but more of a slender cut build. Michael Jackson in 1983 was perfection. No one has ever been able to top that. He was incredibly beautiful. incels are just ugly losers that have no charisma or intelligence either.

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  35. After that intro, i'll never be able to watch one of Ollie's videos the way i used to again…

    Why have you done this to us, Nat?

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  36. Ollie's American accent just makes me think of Ben Shapiro and I was laughing imagining that.

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  37. I want to sincerely thank you for awakening in me the desire for my naked body to be completely enveloped in the warm embrace of nature's eternal tides.

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  38. I'm not sure if it was a good idea to close with the sea — might give them more ideas about suicide strategies.

    Reply

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