Punching Nazis: Force vs. Speech

Punching Nazis: Force vs. Speech


Dave Rubin: The biggest issue with that logic,
that the definition of a Nazi—or whatever label you want to use—will always expand,
so if one person says, “It’s okay to punch a Nazi, it’s okay to punch Richard Spencer,”
someone else will say, “Well, okay, if we can punch him, can we blow up his house?” I mean, what if his wife and kids are in there? Can we—what if it’s not a Nazi, but it’s
someone with equally abhorrent views, like where—it’s just a train that you can’t
stop. Steve Simpson: That’s definitely part of
it. I mean, one of the things I’ve been debating
with people on Twitter and Facebook is, well, okay, you want to punch the Nazis, I guess
we also should punch communists, right, and socialists too, because look what’s happening
in Venezuela. I mean, they’re killing each other, that’s
horrible, so somebody go punch Bernie Sanders. After that, it’s, if you want to look back
to the Middle Ages, look what the Christians did, we gotta start punching Christians, you
know, Muslims are killing people in foreign countries, them too—punch list, you know. And pretty soon, you know, the list is like,
you know, it’s an endless list of everybody in history. And, I mean, so definitely this idea that
we go after people for their ideas is abhorrent, even if their ideas are abhorrent, but we
have to understand: There’s a way to define the line that Flemming was talking about. And, I mean, this is, you know, vastly oversimplified,
but the line is individual rights, and we have to make a distinction between the use
of force, either to threaten or to—the initiation of force to threaten others, threatening or
actually using it against others—versus the use of ideas. So if a Richard Spencer—he can spout all
of his nonsense, as much as he wants. What he can’t do is put those ideas into
practice, because yes, those ideas do lead to violence if you really take them seriously
and you follow them. He cannot go around and start attacking people,
or threatening people, or banding together with other Nazis and saying, “We’re going
to take over the country.” That is all illegal. And thankfully, in free countries, we already
have systems of laws that deal with that. I mean, the criminal law does a really good
job of that. But as Flemming pointed out, we’ve gotten
to a point now where, I think in part, we don’t know where that line is, but also
there are whole philosophies that hold that, in effect, ideas are really threatening. And part of the reason for that, I always
put it as, look, if you want to defend the indefensible, if your ideas are stupid, if
they’re crazy, of course you’re going to be threatened by other ideas. And, I mean, that’s what we see with Islam
and with a lot of the other ideas. But I think, you know, a lot of the people
who are attacking Richard Spencer, they have a reason to fear this, because their own ideas
are crazy, and they don’t know how to defend ideas, so they’re gonna go after him with
force instead of persuasion.

19 Comments on "Punching Nazis: Force vs. Speech"


  1. These shorter video's are nice since they break up the long talks into the important sections.

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  2. I have a feeling these people have very little knowledge of what Richard Spencer actually thinks.

    Inb4 that makes me a nazi too.

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  3. American free speech was envisioned for eighteenth century individuals. Prior to Nazi germany, you may have been a free speech proponent

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  4. Punching a communist is not the same as punching a nazi. Communists dont discriminate based on race or gender. A stalinist or maoist however, punch away.

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  5. A nazi has nothing to say that is worth hearing. The sound a fist smashing a nazi's face, however, is the most beautiful music on earth.

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  6. Nazis stand only to kill everyone not like them. PERIOD. Violence against that mentality is self-defense. Fuck Dave Rubin.

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  7. There's that thing called Stochastic terrorism, people who incite violence without clearly stating so. They just get people to be angry and disgusted at their favored enemies oh what filth the are they are not humans they are animals and whatnot…

    Like Gavin McInnes who founded the proud boys (an alt-right group) and who is always talking about how the lefties should be punched and shived… I'd say that's stochastic terrorism. Let them recruit. Let them convert people to nazism or whatnot. Once and then one of them will kill 20 people or so in an act of actual terrorism. But hey that's just a lone wolf right?

    All the rest of them will say that he's a hero or a martyr for the cause or what not… like they did when that asshole of a nazi rammed his car in protesters at Charlottesville. But hey… only one guy did anything wrong… all the other guys who supported him emotionally and ideologically and thanked him for what he did they are perfectly good citizens.

    But hey. Let the other ones recruit in peace and incite violence with their free speech. That won't backfire. Never did, never will.

    So when is the time to act and what should be done? I never punched a Nazi and don't know if I ever will.

    But if You were a German in, say, the 1930'S… when Nazism was just an idea and had not chance to be implemented … of course you wouldn't punch a Nazi. I wouldn't have either. At what point would I start punching them… I don't know? Before the war? during the war? Before the end of the war? Would I flee?

    I don't know.

    But at some point during that slow and intolerable progression of Nazism, violence against the Nazis, I think, does become acceptable. Very much.

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  8. I cannot understand why so many young trans. activists seem to be in favor of punching nazis. We went from #lovewins to "you disagree? *fist in face*". I don't recognize some of the ideas of people I would otherwise stand with.

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  9. people will say that it is authoritarian of the left to shut down free speech of various alt right movements. I would say that that doesn't matter, these groups should not be allowed to organize and grow and speak because of their ideology. An ideology of hate that when left unchecked is dangerous, and has only caused countless death.

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  10. One minute in and.. I.. I'm speechless. How could anyone listen to anything that 2nd dude said and think "Wow, that is a very good point, sir"? And obviously Rubins brain is as smooth as usual, I don't think there are people who unironically disagree with that.

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  11. Nazis want to wipe out entire races. Punching Nazis is self defence if you're gay, Jewish, black, etc. These white men are speaking from a position of privilege (as am I, being a white man as well) as Nazis don't look to persecute them/me necessarily. Whatever he says about communists, they are not described as fine people by the leader of the free world.

    People like these three are how the far right came to power last time. People who, whilst they may not condone their evil behaviour, are willing to sit by and defend Nazis and act complacent. Those who do not wish to see a repeat of history have a moral obligation to fight Nazis. Do we have to wait until they've killed another 6million people or invaded half a continent again before we stand up to them?

    I was born near Cable Street in London where we have a mural commemorating a time when people came together to fight Mosley and his Blackshirts.

    In conclusion, there are times when you have to stand and fight. Nelson Mandela took the ANC to armed conflict because peaceful protests were not getting anywhere, they only led to protesters getting massacred. The far right have become very emboldened over the past few years and if we don't come together and stand up to them then history will repeat itself.

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  12. Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew. Someone the Nazis would have put into a gas chamber. If you're grandpa didn't support killing Nazis, you're institute wouldn't exist.

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