She Survived History’s Greatest Mass Murderer | Guest: Li Zhao | Ep 39

She Survived History’s Greatest Mass Murderer | Guest: Li Zhao | Ep 39


– Welcome to Kibbe on Liberty. We’re broadcasting almost live at the Atlas Network
meeting in New York City, and I’m talking to my friend (beeps) who grew up under Mao’s China. We’re gonna hear some horror stories, we’re gonna talk about Hong Kong, and we’re gonna talk about why kids should step off the ledge when it comes to socialism. Check it out. (rock music) So, Li, hi. – Hi.
– How are you? – Good. – You just got back from Vienna, Austria, and you’ve been globetrotting
all over the place. What were you up to? Well, I guess Prague
is where you were last. What was going on in Prague? – There was a Hackers Congress there, sixth annual convention
to talk about opt out. So I went there to give a talk, my personal story, my experience growing up and
living in China for 26 years. And if we don’t opt out, we might lose. We will, not might, we will lose our life. – So hackers in, well, all over the world, are romantic and optimistic
about cryptocurrencies and crypto-everything as a way to opt out around government controls and all of that, and I happen to agree with that. We had Patrick Byrne on this
show just a little bit ago and he was talking about
blockchain solutions to everything from voting to stock markets to privacy and all of this stuff and I think there’s something to it. I think there’s an
opportunity to do things without the government
controlling our behavior and that of course is
everything that you believe in. – Yes. One interesting thing, I don’t know how to put it,
it was at the convention, the Hackers’ Congress conference, almost everybody was in black. I thought–
– It’s the uniform. – Yeah. How easy people want to belong to some kind of identity or group, consciously or subconsciously, and that’s kind of dangerous because the communists used that, people’s way of thinking, to bring people into some kind
of a uniform, uniformality. – [Matt] Groupthink. – Yeah, groupthink. So they were very good at that, getting people to think
as one, behave as one, and doing things in unison. – It’s kind of ironic that libertarians also fall into tribal behavior, isn’t it? – [Li] Yeah, yes. – But I’ve run into that, and of course, the favorite tribal
behavior of libertarians is to prove that you’re more
libertarian than the next guy. (Li chuckles) But I wanna talk about, you mentioned this and I want
to get into your experience with communism under Mao in China. We’ve talked about this before, but I think a lot of my listeners haven’t heard this story yet and why it matters to what’s going on in the communist-governed Beijing today and why their reaction to the Hong Kong protesters
is so hysterical. But I wanna start with a poll
that I saw just the other day. There’s an American foundation called The Victims of Communism Foundation and they do this poll every year, and every year, the numbers
get a little bit worse, measuring essentially
what young people think about socialism versus capitalism. Some of it I think is
designed to shock people and ask questions a certain way because I’m not sure
young people even know the context of some of the
words that are being used here but that said, only 57% of Millennials believe the Declaration of Independence better guarantees freedom and equality over the Communist Manifesto. – What? – [Matt] Can you believe that? – What? Only 57%? – [Matt] Yes. – Oh my goodness! – I worry about this. We spent all of our time–
– Oh yes! – Trying to make sure
that young people even, like, do you know what the
Communist Manifesto is? Do you know what the Declaration
of Independence says? And I suspect the answer
is usually maybe not because our education system
doesn’t necessarily teach those core values in school anymore, but you know what the Communist
Manifesto means in practice. You lived through it. Tell everybody a little
bit of your history. You were born in China what year? – 1958.
– 1958. – That’s the year of Great Leap Forward. – Yes. And what was the Great Leap Forward? – The Great Leap Forward, it was a stupid idea by Mao Zedong and he thought China can become a world economic power and whatever power just simply by producing more iron than United States and Great Britain. So he believed in three to five years, China can surpass United
States and Great Britain in the production of iron. And in order to do that, he made the whole country
stop everything else and produce iron. All the trees were cut down to burn, furniture, wood things, most of them were burned to be as a fuel to produce iron. Everybody, regardless
if you know how to do or what to do or not, even kids. And most people didn’t
know how to produce iron, they simply just used the furniture to melt down their pots and pans and then presented it to the government. We have five kilos of iron produced. (laughs) It’s laughable but at that time, either by force or by really
naive believing the government, everybody was involved. So most things were destroyed and things that needed to be
produced were not produced and immediately following that was the famine of three years. – Because one of the
main things that happened is that peasant farmers who were producing the
food that kept people fed were forced to suddenly
become steel producers and they couldn’t have
known how to do that. – Yes, and also, because at that time, it was just after they
nationalized everything. So farmers no longer owned the land they had been tilling for generations, and then also, they were no longer allowed to make decisions on what
to plant and how to plant. Everything was decided by
the central government. The central government
had no idea about farming or specific areas farming but telling the farmers how
to plant, what to plant. Of course, nothing really came out of that kind of planned economy. Also, some people, some farmers tried to
please the government and fabricated some kind of harvest and told the government we can produce this much grain per acre, and the central government used that as the standard for the whole country. – But they were made-up numbers. – They made up not just made-up numbers, they used all the seeds and all the fertilizer
in one piece of land and they said people go inside to use a fan for ventilation because they were too thick. They couldn’t grow and they used all kinds of measures, and then they invited Mao to visit them. They put the little kids on
top of the stalks of wheat, see how thick, how strong, and even the kids can lay on this, and Mao was so happy. Wow, per acre, you can produce this much? Okay, great. The whole country have to use this number. They showed the pictures and the other peasants,
farmers were laughing but nobody dared to say
anything because if you laugh, you tell them that’s
not true, you’re dead! So all things add together, the peasants became the poorest people in the country, starving. The peasants, they were starving because all the harvest was taken away. And Mao wasn’t starving
because he took all the food. – Yes, the elites were fine but mass starvation amongst poor farmers. Stalin supposedly said
that one person dead from starvation is a tragedy. A million starved people are a statistic. Mao has said similarly
evil things but in total, Mao killed 45 million people, most from starvation and
in the Great Leap Forward and I think people have a
hard time even conceiving of a number that massive. It’s impossible to believe even. – Yes. And China at that time is
not as numerous as today, 1.4 billion, but yes, a lot of people. Every family you ask has
some members of the family that either by torture, by starvation, by imprisonment, and by hard labor. Every family. – I want to get back
to your personal story. We’re free-market libertarians, we both like Austrian economics, and of course Frederick Hayek’s critique of socialist planning
was that no single person could know enough to
organize a complex economy. And Mao’s experiments and
the Great Leap Forward transitioning a rural farming society to an industrial powerhouse is sort of a caricature, it’s an extreme example of
how one person doesn’t know. But it applies to everything and this is one of the things we struggle to explain to people
that want to try socialism is that there’s no way
for anybody to know enough to tell us how to live
our lives essentially. And you would think that would
be a more persuasive argument but I don’t know. – Well, they didn’t put it that way. They put it this way, he said, I know better than you so if you listen to me
and follow my instruction, you will have a worry-free life and you don’t need to work hard, you don’t need to think, you will just be happy all the time, and you’re so happy you
don’t want to just sit there so you may want to do some work, but it’s not going to be hard and you don’t need to worry
about how much you produce because we’re going to feed you. You will have unlimited supply of food and everything you need. We will give it to you. So a lot of people
thought, wow, that’s great. I don’t want to work hard. I don’t want to budget my income, my food. I love that! And you take care of me. So a lot of people followed and believed because they didn’t trust themselves of making decisions. They thought, oh, the government
is so powerful, so strong, they’re so intelligent, they know better than
me how to live my life. So they gave up. But after they gave up,
they realized it was wrong but they couldn’t get it back anymore. – It was too late. – [Li] Too late. – Some of those promises
resonate with young people today which is why you tell your story. Let’s get into that. Your family was a so-called black family. And explain the difference between black families and red families. – Yes. The Chinese government divided people into two categories: red and black. I’m not sure about the red because I was born into a black family. At the beginning, they had five blacks. Number one, property owners. Number two, rich people. Today, I realize what rich people means, it means you can feed yourself. Number three, counter-revolutionaries, say no to communism or
doesn’t agree with communism. Number four was the funniest,
it’s the bad people. We said, who are the bad people? Oh, anybody we don’t like is bad people. And then number five is Right Wing. Right Wing at that time is anybody who gives suggestions
to the Communist Party, say you should do things differently in order to help the
country or criticize them, those are Right Wings. So these are five categories of black. Later on, they expanded
to nine categories: educated people, people
who spoke foreign languages who had relatives outside of China, and these are not just
one generation or you, it’s eight generations. For me, I was born into a black family. I didn’t belong to any
categories but my ancestors, some of my ancestors belonged
to one or multiple categories. That’s why we never had
the chance to change. It’s just black. – Why was your family deemed black? – I think four generations before me, they were highly educated. Many of them went abroad to study, Japan, England, United States, and many of them are pioneers
of capitalists in China during the turn of the 20th century. They were bankers,
industrialists, entrepreneurs. So collectively, actually, they were the shakers
and movers of modern China and they contributed so much. So they were the kind of people the Communists didn’t like. Of course, these families
are married to each other so are family from all
directions, all black. – So you really didn’t stand a chance because you had all of
the wrong characteristics in your family.
– Right. And when I was in first
grade, elementary school, I remember I was not
allowed to participate at any extracurricular activities. I couldn’t learn dance,
I couldn’t learn to sing, I couldn’t learn musical
instrument, I couldn’t play sports, just basically besides going to school. I was not allowed to do anything. And even going to school
we were segregated, even the seating and
the things we could say, running for student president, something. Nothing! – This makes perhaps light of it but you were a second-class citizen. – Oh yeah.
– You were separate? – Mm-hmm. – And treated differently. – We had to sit in a
different part of the train. – Tell me some of these, we’ve talked about these stories before but getting back to
centralized communist farming, is enslaved too strong of a word? Because you were put
to work as a small girl in some of these ridiculous experiments in agriculture reform. – Actually, I use the word exile because I was born in the city. My parents are educated, medical doctor and university professor. But in 1969, the government relocated us to a remote village. I remember it took us a week to get there. Train, boat, truck, and basically kind of like tractor hauled us to this village. The language was totally different. We couldn’t understand
what people were speaking. They were Cantonese. We were in Mandarin-speaking
cities before. And then there was no electricity. If you think about from
the history perspective maybe in the United States 500
years ago, it was like that. No running water, no toilet,
there’s no place to live. We were just dropped
over there as punishment and they called it re-education. So we suddenly end up there,
we had to make a living, so we found this Buddhist temple
was vandalized, broke down, and we used some crates,
boxes to divide it into rooms. And the floor was just
mud and that was our home. We had a board and my
family are so westernized, they said, we can’t
just sleep on the board so we found some hay
and put it on the board to make it softer. Oil lantern. I mean, I was 11 years
old, my brother was 9, we learned to a find a
river to carry water home. We had a big jar and
the water was so muddy. We learned to put lime in the water to make the mud sink to the bottom so the surface water
would be clean enough, clear enough to drink. We’d go to the mountain
to find trees to cut. Actually, it’s not our
trees and nobody’s trees so everybody did that. So we did that, went to the mountains
and find first branches, later just trees to cut and
bring home to burn as the fuel or to cook and to heat. Suddenly, from a civilized society and being dropped into a 500-year difference
uncivilized world because Mao believed the education you received are evil so you have to receive
education from the peasants, from the poorest people,
from the working people. Many, many people were punished that way. We’re not the only family. And a lot of families were taken apart because they were sent the wife this way, husband that way, the
children in another way, another place in the country. So our family said no matter what, we’re going to live
together and die together. So we kind of volunteered to say send us to the poorest place as long
as our family can be together. So that’s how we did. We were there for nine years. So suddenly, there’s no schools, we have to work. School is just work. Little kids have to work. My poor mother, English professor, there’s no schools and
she has nothing to do. And my father was a medical
doctor, he was a surgeon, and he needed help to do surgery because a doctor, everybody needs. So my mom, just without any training, became a partner with my dad doing surgery and treating patients, just like that. We were watched by the peasants because they got a job to watch us, monitor us to see if we say anything bad, we behaved any ways bad. And of course, we don’t
dare to eat things, we don’t dare to cook things differently because my family, when I
was growing up in the cities, we’d make potato, the same
potato, we’d make potato salad instead of just boiled
potato dipped in salt, so we don’t dare to eat it
that way anymore because– – It’s different.
– That’s not communism! That’s bourgeoisie. (Li laughs) We don’t dare to say anything or complain. We have to pretend to be
very, very happy there. – Yeah. Mao’s Great Leap Forward
happened, it was 1958, 1959. – Yeah, ’57, ’58, ’59. – Yeah. And that was a colossal failure. – [Li] Oh, yes. – It failed to industrialize the country and so many people starved and Mao was getting push back
within the Communist Party, and correct me on my history, did he immediately launched
the Cultural Revolution. Was your re-education part
of the Cultural Revolution? – Yes. Actually, 1965, right after the famine, just like what Lenin did, temporarily, they told the farmers now you can just use that
piece of land as yourselves and you don’t have the ownership but you can have the ownership mentality to treat the land and plant. So immediately that year, 1965, everything became very good. There’s almost enough food. – Production picked up again. – Yes. – Farmers that knew how to farm were allowed to do that least temporarily. – And they get to keep their– – Importantly, yeah. They get to keep the food they produce. – That’s the most important
so they have motivation. And the city allowed
fashion, nighttime, fashion. They allowed music, especially Shanghai used
to be very westernized and the people were happy, they had restaurants to go to, they can have dance parties. Because my grandparents, they were very active. They had parties, dance, and music, and going out to eat and drink. Everybody was very happy. And right after that, only one year, Mao’s said, no, we didn’t succeed with controlling
these economic sectors, I need to control people’s minds. He wanted to use his own thinking to unify entire population’s way of thinking, when thinking. So that’s his reason for starting the Cultural Revolution. – Yeah, and that’s where the
cultural authoritarianism, the idea like he wasn’t just
an economic planner anymore, he was God. And he decided that everyone how everyone would be the same. – Yes, you have to think
exactly the same way. That’s the horrifying factor today is Xi Jinping is doing
exactly the same thing. He wants everybody to
think the way he thinks. Not want, he make, trying to make everybody
think the way he thinks. He doesn’t really brave enough
to say my way of thinking, he brings back Mao. – Yeah. And I think a lot of people
are confused about that because there’s clearly, maybe like 1965, there’s a modicum of freedom when it comes to production,
economic production. And in some ways, China is
a very productive economy but that need, that authoritarian need to control the minds of the people and to control their behavior
and to subjugate them, that’s never gone away. – Yeah. A very interesting story, 1965, I mentioned fashion was allowed. At that time, for some reason, people liked very tight pants. So ’66 Cultural Revolution started. So you see the Right guards
holding a beer bottle or usually it’s not for beer,
but for soy sauce or vinegar on the street and if
they catch people with those fashionable clothing, they will put the bottle in your pants if it’s too small. The bottle doesn’t fit. That’s bad so the pants get cut off. – Wow. – And that’s why you see those Red Guards with the bottle on the street because everybody have to dress this way. – Literally fashion police. – Right. – Hair, they cut your hair
if your hair is too long. They cut your clothes if the
clothes are too fashionable and they go to your house and see what you eat, and they will take your food away if you have beautiful food. – There’s something about communism, because one of the stories
that isn’t told that much like going after fashion
and prohibiting music and targeting artists and poets because they’re free thinkers. I think young socialists today in America don’t associate any of that
sort of authoritarianism with what they hope is this
new democratic socialism, but the first thing you do
is stop the free-thinking, free-spirited behavior because
it’s all about controlling the minds of the people more than it is about controlling the economy. – Right. That’s the the most
core value of communism, just like you said. You can’t not think any differently. You have to think in the one
way they want you to think. Of course, from the thinking, then everything else applied. For China, the number one thing is they closed all
schools and all libraries. And the books, we had a lot of books. Books became crime evidence. So we sold our books as used paper by the weight. We didn’t throw them away because all universities, all schools closed so my
mom had no more salary. So we had to sell books. We sell everything we can
sell to get by to buy food. All libraries closed. Readings were limited to certain books. I remember when I was in the age that I was hungry for books, for reading, I remember the whole China published one or two books a year. They just reprint Mao’s book. That’s all we get to read and memorize. We’re forced to memorize. And the music, all band music, and Mao’s wife was a movie actress. So she came up with eight
productions of one ballet, a couple of Peking opera, and something, eight pieces. So for 10 years, those only eight pieces were allowed to perform as entertainment and we all learned how to sing that, and the ballet, there was
the troupes using guns and dancing with guns
and things like that. And that’s her design, her
production, and clothes. She designed the one dress, and everybody who could afford and who wanted to wear a
dress have to wear that. Otherwise, it’s just
military uniform style and the same color because they believed if you have desire, freedom to choose your style, then you’re not communist enough. It’s just like religion. You have to get rid of everything your mind would want
to think for yourself. Thinking for yourself
is the biggest no-no. I get my report card from
school always labeled, and I call this thinking for yourself and only care about yourself. Those are really, really bad behavior and they need to get rid of that. So a lot of people want to prove
they’re pure to communists. Every morning, they would go confess. Sorry, Mao, Chairman Mao,
in front of Mao’s portrait. I thought for myself
yesterday, and this and that, I’m so sorry. I will never do that again. Every day they have a meeting, they call it fight for self-awareness. That’s every day first thing. You go to school, you go to
work, you go to a meeting and overcome your self-awareness. – The way that all of this is enforced, I mean, the Cultural
Revolution was about violence and not just violence that you would expect if you
did certain things wrong, there would be random
ceremonial executions in the street, right? – Yes. You don’t even know what you did wrong. – And it’s all about terror. – Exactly. One person, he had some
kind of a disability. He couldn’t laugh. He couldn’t smile, laugh, and it became a crime. So they forced him, smile in front of the Mao’s portrait! He couldn’t do it because somehow, there’s a disability on his facial muscle. So he was tortured and they
labeled him, you hate Mao. You hate communists. That’s why you never smile
in front of Mao’s portrait. So they tied him up on a chair, tickle the bottom of
his feet with a feather and tickle him there and
there, he just couldn’t. He just (laughs) like
this, the most he could do. So he was tortured and imprisoned and lost his job, everything! After the Cultural Revolution, one day, he was home and watching TV. There’s something not very
funny, just a comedy show, and he started to laugh he couldn’t stop. He was on the floor rolling
and his wife was crying, so why did your laugh come so late? We suffered for 10
years, now you can laugh! It’s so sad. – Let’s talk about that need to control. And you already mentioned President Xi and the current communist
government in Beijing, and their hyperbolic, insane reaction to protesters in Hong Kong because I think you just gave us the historical context for what’s going on because the idea that
free-minded people in Hong Kong would show up in the streets to protest overreach by the
mainland Chinese government in what is supposed to be an
autonomous city, Hong Kong. What’s going on there? – That’s the nature of communism. They promised Hong Kong
one country, two systems which means Hong Kong people
decide for their own lives and their economy and everything, but the nature of communism
has never let other people have their freedom of choice, of control of their own lives. That’s not the
characteristic of communism, so they said that but they cannot do that. So they want the control. They told Hong Kong people, you can freely elect your governor but I give you the candidates. I give you five or 10 candidates, you can only elect from these candidates. That’s not freedom of choice! And Hong Kong economy, they penetrate into all the sectors with the Chinese government state-owned bank and money and they make a lot of regulations
according to their values and they control the land, they control the housing. It’s just every aspect! But the Hong Kong people had the tradition of free economic freedom and political freedom and the people or their education system
was not the communist so they were educated with a free mind. – If you think about it,
most people in Hong Kong would check almost every
box in the blacklist. – Yes, almost everybody. – They’re guilty of all of those sins. They’re educated, they’re
free, they’re prosperous, and that is a direct threat – Exactly.
– to control in Beijing. – And at first, the communists thought if we still maintain the life’s standard for the Hong Kong people, they just love money, they love good food, if we don’t touch that area,
Hong Kong people will be fine. No, people, it’s not
just for their stomach. They live for more than that. They underestimated people
with the ability to think and educated under that. So the Hong Kong people
saw what’s going on. They said no. We don’t want to be part
of China in that sense. Their nationality, I can say I’m Chinese, but I don’t want to say– Communist government is China. That’s Hong Kong people’s perception. I’m Chinese but communist
government is now China. But then they realize
they cannot separate that. They will be governed by the communists. They thought they wouldn’t,
that they didn’t have to. – [Matt] Well, they were promised. – Yeah, they promised. They trust. I never trust communists. Give you one example. My grandfather passed away and he said, “Don’t bury me, “just wait until grandma passes away, “put our ashes together
and scatter into the sea.” And then, my grandmother
lived a very long life so that my grandfather’s ashes
were at home for too long, my cousin that’s superstitious thought that caused my child
to get sick, they said that, so she wanted to buy a
plot in the cemetery, a plot to bury my grandfather’s ashes, and she asked me, because
I’m the firstborn grandchild. I said no. She said, “Why?” I said, I don’t trust
the communist government because you thought your
ancestors were buried here. Tomorrow, if they want something else to use that piece of
land or for some reason, they will take out your
ashes or your bones and throw it away. Because that’s what happened to us during the Cultural Revolution. A lot of bones got dug out. Even the dead people,
they march on the street not just living enemies or black people, they march on the street
with the dead people’s bones. And my grandmother, one of
my grandmothers, passed away and we knew, because we’re so black, we knew the Red Guard is going to take out her body, her coffin. She was not cremated so we rushed it before the Red Guard found her grave because she was buried to
the very edge of the cemetery and they went to search,
they couldn’t find it, so we went there, we got it out, we bribed the cremation place to burn her and they said, we have
freshly dead people, we don’t even have
enough capacity to burn. But my aunt had some connections and some money and paid them. So we burned my grandma’s corpse and so we preserved ashes
somewhere only us know. The communists will do
that to even dead people so how can I trust them? When I heard them say
one country, two systems, I said no way. When they say, oh, this
cemetery is beautiful, it’s promised, always
yours, I said no way. Even if you buy a home, you
think that’s your home forever. No, never guaranteed. So I’ve seen all their behaviors. None of their promises they will keep, unless it’s for their own benefit. – So people have seen these
protests have been happening for years now as the Chinese government has stripped essentially
democratic rights, the right to vote for
the people that you want and the right to speak, the right to gather in the streets, I’m thinking of basic
constitutional rights that we have in this country, and the government has gotten more violent and more people in Hong Kong
have shown up in the streets. And one of the things they’ve done is they brought American
flags to these protests. The people in Hong Kong essentially are celebrating American values while mainland China is trying to suppress all of those instincts but it’s hard to do because
the people in Hong Kong have been free. – Yes. Actually, only one promise Chinese government kept until today is the freedom to
demonstrate, to have assembly. So Hong Kong people use that. In China, if a church
have a 200 congregation, it’s already violating the rule. 50 people is maximum. Also, not just for Hong Kong people, for all Chinese people, United States of America
represent the land of the free. That’s why so many
people want to immigrate to the United States. Now, the the biggest group and easiest way to do it is to have their child
born in the United States, and there was such a big industry. And when they get born
in the United States, they were at least, they said 20 years later,
we have an American citizen and can bring our home
family to the United States. The Chinese people are so desperate. And so when the Hong
Kong people demonstrate, of course, they look
up to the United States to be on their side because that’s the kind of system in their life they
admire, they want to have. – The values.
– The values, the principles, the
ideas, and the philosophy, and the beliefs. So naturally, they will
have American flags and they plead to
President Trump to help us. And on the other hand, actually, that’s another
statement they’re making because just before that, China would heavily
demonize the United States in the ideology level. Say no to western ideas! Say no to western this,
say no to western that, and say no to Christmas! That’s not our holiday, it’s a United States, American holiday. – So an actual war on Christmas? – Yeah, banned Christmas
trees and everything. Oh, but they don’t
usually say United States, they say West. Some people ask, wasn’t Marx a westerner? Wasn’t communism a western idea? But no Chinese thought about that. They thought of Marxism as Chinese. So the Hong Kong people
had the American flag also to give a message, say, you ban them, your entire United States, we’re for it, not necessarily for the material things. So there’s two reasons I think they have the American flags. – Hong Kongers are
embracing American values, and let’s go full circle here. According to this poll
that I read earlier, too many young people are
embracing the Communist Manifesto. Instead, you travel the
world telling the story, and the story gets deeper and darker. I’ve heard other things
that you’ve told me. What do you say to young people who think that socialism is cool? – When you give up your autonomy and power and freedom to be the owner of your own life, you’re giving up life. You said government provide me this, give me free education, give me free this, provide
this and provide that, you are giving up your own power to control on your own life. The more the government’s
bigger, the smaller you get, and become doesn’t exist. You’re just an instrument or a toy to the government. They can place you any way they want to. They can play with your
life any way they want to. Actually, I just read it, the Xi Jinping’s talk yesterday. They say, our whole country is a big chess board, chess game. Everybody is a piece on the chess board. He said that! That’s what he wants people to be. – [Matt] Cogs. – Yeah. “We are a whole country
so we’re one game.” And that’s what socialist is. Young people, if you think you want government to give
you this and give you that, they’re not just going
to just gift it to you, they were going to tell you
how to use it, when to use it, if you can’t use it, you cannot use it, until you realize you can’t even decide what to eat for dinner. How many times you can sleep with your wife, the government decide on that too. That is not a joke. I remember at that time, if the couple doesn’t, they don’t live in the same city, government gave them two
months a year together holiday, two times a year, each time one month. That’s all they can be together. That’s how the government
takes care of you. The young people growing
up in the internet age, there’s no border. That’s only one area. There’s no border, almost no regulation. – No rules. – Yeah, no rules. They’re so used to that! Just wait until one day, government says, no, you cannot have any
access on the internet because it’s damaging your brain, not good for you, and now, all the
information on the internet is not healthy for you, totally banned. I don’t think anybody will
still think socialism is cool. – Let’s hope. – But if it will happen, if they ask government
to take care of them, that will come, definitely! China is that way now. – Thank you. Thank you for telling that story and let’s hope that we
reached a lot of people that are headed in the wrong direction. – Yes, thank you. – Thanks for watching Kibbe on Liberty. By now, you know this is
the most important event of your week so make sure
you subscribe on YouTube, click the little bell so
you get notifications. Kibbe on Liberty, mostly
honest conversations with mostly interesting people.

8 Comments on "She Survived History’s Greatest Mass Murderer | Guest: Li Zhao | Ep 39"


  1. Watch all episodes of the Kibbe on Liberty podcast here: ​https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL36_JCmmBwZrrsXd0VIMJXHBSuWfUm57k

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  2. She is right ! Extremely smart and intelligent woman. She's beautiful. I feel so bad for her. She lived through communist party dictatorship.

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  3. Zedong and Joseph Stalin were the two most evil men who ever lived. I don't know why a lot of American kids like communism. They don't know.

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  4. Thank you Matt Kibbe for bringing on critically time important and delightful guests such as Li Zhao on behalf of LIBERTY to bring us the REAL TRUTHS about the glossed over monstrous regimes of Mao, Stalin et al, by those most qualified to do so : those that survived and thrived beyond all the living hells on earth, exactly such as this saintly, Chinese lady .

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  5. YOU are all doing God’s work. Democratic Socialism will bring us to this and be the end of civilization. This coming from a man who’s family fled Maoist China and lost everything cause we were successful merchants . My ancestry involves those imprisoned by the Red guard and executed for being Christian

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