You Weren’t There | Full Documentary Movie | HD | English | Free to Watch

You Weren’t There | Full Documentary Movie | HD | English | Free to Watch


Guitar music) – Chicago in those days
wasn’t conservative, it was corrupt. A segregated, corrupt city, run by, you know, some vicious people. – It was a real tight-ass Catholic kind of shove a piece of coal up
your butt you get a diamond kind of city (laughs). – It was a very closed down city. Very conservative, it was not open. – There was something about the whole Chicago rock and roll crowd that just viewed punk as like a threat. – [Man] If you walked down
the street with a Mohawk, you were going to get
all kinds of comments and you might get your ass kicked. – Back then they wanted to fight you, they just wanted to kick your ass man. They felt threatened, they
didn’t like it or understand it. ♫ One two three four – Older people generally left you alone. It was your heavy metal
like Loop t-shirt wearing types that really took a
great hatred to punk rock. – And lots of guys with like center parts and, you know, Led Zeppelin t-shirts and Trans Ams. Like I’d be waiting for the bus and somebody’d whip a
bottle at me or something. – You’d walk down the street, people would throw things at you. Hurl insults, cars would slow down, people would yell and. – Oh, DEVO. One word, DEVO. – Hey DEVO. – Punk Rock, B52s – Rock Lobster. – You’d be standing at the L platform, you know and somebody would like, some guys would get off
the train and walk by you and they’d say DEVO. – Jocks or idiots, same deal,
would lean out the window and say Whip It! – They’d yell like, Whip It, Whip It Good. Remember DEVO used to? That’s what they thought
punk was, you know. – That was like, the put down of choice by like REO Speedwagon fans everywhere, was DEVO. And it was always
pronounced in that sort of mildly retarded fashion. – I think on the North
side I got more shit because people sort of knew, a little bit, or they’d seen it, so
they knew to fuck with it. Whereas on the South
side, they were just like, crazy white boys, whatever. (punk rock beat) – South side was bewilderment,
but north side was “Punk rock faggot, hey faggot”. – Oh, we were faggots. I mean of course we were faggots (laughs). We had to be. We had to be, we weren’t
playing The Who, you know? We had to be fags. – Fucking faggots get off the stage. Got a lot of faggot. – But it was a lot safer
to be downtown Chicago than it was to be– – Oh yeah, I’d way rather
be a punk in the city than out in the suburbs. – The suburbs were a very violent, treacherous place for a young
punk rocker by themselves. – Very scary. – I think it’s the mid west
mentality, kind of thing. – People are conservative here, and- – People are very conservative,
and you know, Go Bears. (laughs) – But I always thought
there would come like, you know, a bit, the
people who liked hard rock and heavy metal, would you know, probably like punk. Not in the late ’70s
or early ’80s (laughs). They detested us with a passion. (punk beat) – I was managing a record
store called Sounds Good at Belmont and Broadway. The guy who was my assistant manager was Mike Rivers, also known as Sparkle. We had gotten the first Ramones record, you know the guy walks in “Hey I think” “you’ll like this, leather jackets,” while he’s giving us the
first Tom Petty record, ’cause he thought they
were the same thing. I think we had gotten a
couple of Clash singles. Anarchy in the UK. We realized that there
were all these people buying these records, and the
conversation would be one of “Boy I wish there was
somewhere you could hear this stuff” and Sparkle knew these guys, a couple of gay guys who
had this club on Halsted, this club that wasn’t doing
anything, called La Mere Vipere. So we went over there,
said “Hey, can we have” “your club for Sunday night?” “We’ll provide the DJs,
we’ll provide the music,” “we’ll provide the people at the door,” “you tend bar and take all the money.” And I think we charged a dollar. (heavy punk instrumental music) – The first night we had like 100 people. We were just like, wow. This is great, you like this music too? Yeah. Some people had like
white shirts that they, you know, put pins in. But it was more tongue in cheek. It was like Halloween party. – It was at the time when people really didn’t know how to become punk. When punk really wasn’t codified. – [Announcer] There will be anarchy at La Mere next Sunday night. – We used to joke. It was, you know, all the
misfits coming together. – It was like a fish
finding water, for me. I knew that I belonged. It was the music was awesome, the environment was awesome. This was it. I had found my element. – For the first time in my life I was thrilled to be living in Chicago. Because of La Mere Vipere. – I mean the place was jumping, and just all the outrageous characters from around Chicago that no other scene would possibly accept them (laughs). – Some of these people were very hard core, you know, individuals. – We would go every night. Every night they would
be playing some new song that got released. A lot of English punk. Great stuff. It’s fantastic when every
day you hear a new song, that it just kicks your ass more than the new song that
kicked your ass yesterday. – May of ’77, we went to England. I’d been playing the Pistols and the Clash a little bit before I left, but I had no idea what was going on there. I just got tons of
records while I was there and then I came back, and I had just had happened to get, like, about three or four promo copies of Pretty Vacant. – We went to La Mere that night and I brought ’em a copy of it. Hadn’t even actually been
released yet in England, so it made for a good party that night. – It wasn’t only the punk thing you know, it was, they were playing reggae, You’d have soul in there. But it was just straight up,
hard energy, dance music. – In the course of the
night you would hear ska and rockabilly, and glam. And the Ramones, and you know, the movement hadn’t fractured. – Hey all the disco
leftovers were there and they were discovering La Mere. I’m sure a lot of them never went back. – I was discoing you know,
I was like wearing a suit like everybody else. Stopped at La Mere just on a fluke, you know it was like, bam,
walked into the place. The music was kicking, you know, people were jumping, just going crazy. I went home, I took off that suit man, and I like ripped up a t-shirt, and I was like back the next night. – Kenny Ellis was the doorman there, and I opened the door, and I go, “Dude.” “What is this place?” And he goes, “La Mere Vipere man.” Mother of the snake. And I said, what is this music? – Punk, are you going to
come in or not, you know. It was like. – And there were people
that still had long hair. There were people that
still had beards and, I mean you know, you didn’t
have to shed everything right away. – You still had people with, you know, their afros and mustaches. We had people with the safety,
who embraced it more fully. They were you know,
fully safety pinned out and ripped t-shirts. – Just anything went. There was no uniform. It was brilliant. – You’d see people, they’d kind of heard about, they’d walk in with a tie on. And by the end of the night, the tie’s gone, the shirt’s gone, the guy’s in his like, undershirt. The girl’s like shoes are gone, her dress is all sweat
up and they’re like, “This is great,” and you’d
see them the next week and now, they don’t have a tie on, and they’re a little punkier (laughs). – The clientele is made up of just such a diverse white people,
black people, asian people. I mean, it was the first
place I’d ever stepped into and it was 1977, that was just completely, utterly diverse, and nobody
gave a crap about anything. – Art school kids, drag queens, gays, leather boys. Poets who wore lederhosen and carried barbie doll cases. – I used to do things like wear a dry cleaning bag. – We all just put on these heavy duty plastic bags, and we
chained ourselves together. And, insisted on being admitted into the club as one entity. We didn’t want to pay cover for four guys, we wanted to pay one cover charge. – I just wanted to see what
it would look like, you know. And who was there, and
what they looked like. And I was just really curious. – In June we had our Punkarama weekend. Which had a fashion show. – I guess it was a fashion show. People wrapped in saran wrap (laughs) or aluminum foil. – [Boudreau] Um, we had ear piercing, by a registered nurse of course. – And Time Magazine showed up. And there’s a picture of this guy Spin, who wore a parachute with raw meat. – The Dead Boys, I hung
out with the Dead Boys, drinking with them. The Stranglers came by a few times. Jimmy Skafish was a regular. – Skafish the artist was holding courts at the bar with two of his little friends, and they were both wearing lederhosen. – The guy is, you know, he’s different looking (laughs). Yeah, plus you know, he was part of the royalty there. – Yeah him and Beluga, they were like the trendsetters, as far as what they thought people should be wearing, which was usually like way too cartoony, even for now. – The Illinois legislature
in it’s infinite wisdom decided to lower the drinking age from 21 to 19. – There was a lot of drinking. There was a lot of drugs. There was a lot of
hallucinogenics at the time. A lot of people are on MDA. – And they had poppers there, maybe somebody would snort a popper and then you’d go
downstairs and jump around for a while, while it was working. – Upstairs was a good place to nod out. – Tik was big then. You know you’d get people
all blasted on Tik. – Bathroom was always good for doing coke, to wake up. – A lot of coke, a lot
of uppers and downers and everything else, you know. I mean, I don’t know what everybody else was doing, I know what
I was doing (laughs). – There was just all kinds of shit going on in those bathrooms, you know, all the time. There was no privacy. – I mean the bathrooms. You go in the men’s room, there’d be transvestites
putting on their makeup. It didn’t matter. – Seeing people dancing
naked did not surprise you. OK, and it would happen. And it would happen because people would come in, wrapped in cellophane, so they just didn’t
care right off the bat. – You know, it was sexual, it was dancing with yourself, it was dancing in groups. It was making out under these bleachers. It was truly, anything goes. – You know, people fucking under the, on the side of the room, underneath the, in the alcoves. – They kept these risers
for when they ever did shows, but there was this whole space, and there was these group
of people that hung out under there. We called them the moles, you know. – Shit went on under there man. That was one of the treats
of working the floor, ’cause you had a flashlight, you know. Like you’d go like flash
in there and go, damn. (laughs) You know. – And there was a few drag queens that took advantage of naive men, who were drunk. – I mean that was the
end of the world there. Halsted, what 2200 block of Halsted was like close to the street gangs over there on Armitage and Halsted. It was a rough area over there, so the cops didn’t really bother you over there that much, until they saw that, you know, things were starting to
get successful there. – Most of the cops that I dealt with that come into the door that I’d check ids, to make sure we were checking ids. They look around the
place and you could see, they were just like wanted to, hey, let’s get the fuck
out of here, you know. These motherfuckers are crazy. – When it went to seven nights a week, it snowballed into something that nobody, none of us expected, and I think towards the end, none of us really wanted. – The asshole factor went up dramatically. – But yeah, you started to see it become almost like the tour bus that would stop at the Baton, so that the suburbanites could see the drag show. It was, you knew, you get a car full, and you go look at the freaks at La Mere. – The neighborhood hated it. – That neighborhood was in that process of gentrification that’s
overtaken the city still. – There were rumors going around that men were urinating on women in there, and that you know, there was active sex, multi-partners, and people were dancing and spitting on each other, and puking on each other, and you know, just kind of, stuff that was so out of control. And then eventually one night, we were down at the Coach House and I went out to my car to get something, and I saw fire trucks down the street, and I go you know what, that
looks really close to La Mere. – And there was fire trucks there, and police cars. And they were all standing around outside on Halsted street, and there was a little bitty fire going on at
the top of the building. And they were all standing there and nobody was doing anything about it. And they were just standing there watching this fire go, and I saw this and I ran back to the party and I said “They’re burning down La Mere.” So a bunch of people ran over and then the cops wouldn’t let us through. And you know, the suspicion is that they actually set the fire. To get rid of this place. – Ah yeah, it was definitely torched. And that was the end of it. That was pretty much, that was the end of La Mere Vipere. – [Man] Maybe it’s a good thing that it burned down when it did. At that time I guess it
was losing it’s muster. – It was easy for everyone to persecute and say the neighborhood burned it down. Neighbors burned it down,
the police burned it down. Everyone had a speculation. And I had my own, but I prefer not to share that right now because it might ruin a lot of people’s,
you know, imaginations. – What always struck
me and my friends funny at the first night he was
dedicating totally to soul, they burned it down (laughs). It was like wait a minute, we’ll put up with the
punks, but now you’re crossing the fucking line (laughs). – Tutu and the Pirates. ♫ (scream) You got me They were probably the
first Chicago punk band. (punk rock music) ♫ Sitting in your car makin’ love. – Tutu was our drummer. But he wasn’t Tutu. We just said that we came
up with the name first. And then we said, who’s going to be Tutu? And, I mean I don’t
know why that name came, but I mean we just all laughed, and thought it was just so stupid, you know and Nick said
that’s got to be our name. So we figured who could
handle having that name, and he was an ex-marine,
a biker and stuff, so he’s the one guy who could handle having that as his name, (laughs) because the rest of us weren’t nearly secure enough in our manhood to deal with it if we had that name. I was Little Ritchie Speck, the bass player was Frankie Paradise, The guitar players were Jimmy Socket, and Mel Torment. – Really our thing was sort of like tongue in cheek. But at the same time, our original concept was really raw, and fast, and you know, you could, you know jump up and down to it. We played at a place
called the, it was actually named after a Patti Smith song. It was a one night only place called The Piss Factory. It was a big warehouse basement somewhere, and everybody who hung
out at La Mere was there. And it was great, we came out and we started playing, and just people just went crazy. Yeah none of us expected that. We knew we had some, we had some fun songs, you know, but people really wanted a local band, that was really doing
kind of the punk thing. – Tutu and the Pirates
were absolutely fantastic. They were so over the
top, so funny, so crazy. – I mean you know when they do like I Want to be a Janitor he’d bring out his toilet seat bass, and
the singer would have, Little Ritchie Speck, the singer would have a plunger, you know (laughs). ♫ I want to be a janitor (punk rock music) ♫ Textbook study (inaudible) ♫ Preaching and teaching (inaudible) ♫ (Inaudible) that nothing’s wrong ♫ Ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ♫ I wanna be a janitor (punk music) ♫ (Inaudible line) is transportation ♫ (Inaudible line) ♫ I ne ne ne ne ne ne
ne wanna be a janitor ♫ God should be dead ♫ His kid is here ♫ His voice was (inaudible) ♫ In a band would he want a singer ♫ Then he’d be a real hard taker ♫ I ne ne ne ne ne ne
ne wanna be a janitor (Punk instrumentals) ♫ I despise that fucking (inaudible) ♫ Country western and disco ♫ (Inaudible) dance rock future ♫ (inaudible) is my illusion ♫ I ne ne ne ne ne ne
ne ne wanna be a janitor – Out of that early scene,
they were the only band that, they could play in the clubs
where all the bands like Bohemia and those bands would play. – You know, places like
Mothers, and Huey’s and B’Ginnings, and a lot of smaller, you know, little neighborhood bars and stuff like that, you know. We were like the token, they’d try it out. We used to open up the set, “You fuckers!” and then blam blam blam and then break into whatever,
I Got Zits or something. ♫ I got zits ♫ I got zits ♫ I got zits These people were just totally, totally, you know, appalled
that this, you know. And they were willing to kill people to stop this scourge on their
beloved rock music scene. – The bands were always
trying to look very studly and handsome, you know, and they’re gonna get the girl, and they’re gonna sing love songs. This was really the exact opposite. You know, it looked like hell, they looked like bikers,
it looked like trouble. The songs were rude. ♫ (inaudible) ♫ No head from Darlene ♫ She always falls asleep ♫ She (inaudible) ♫ She always falls asleep ♫ Disco queen ♫ She always falls asleep And it was just wrong in a wrong. It was just wrong. From the get-go wrong. It was not, you know,
what they wanted to hear. ♫ She always falls asleep, ah, shit – The war with B’Ginnings was hilarious because they had Battle
of the Bands night. You know, the bands that
were playing with us were like, doing like, were
like Sytx kind of bands. (punk music beat) And so we showed up
with a huge contingency and everybody came out to see us there. And it was a friggin’ war. I mean people were
throwing beer bottles at us and it was, i mean, I got cut, Tutu got hit in the head with a bottle, I mean, everybody was
getting all dinged up. I mean, we were all bleeding and stuff. It was the greatest show ever. ‘Cause it was like, our friends
out out getting pummeled, and they were pummeling other people. And of course when we
were done with the set the owner of B’Ginnings said,
“Get the hell out of my club.” “You’ll never play here again.” We were back like two months later. – Contrary to popular belief in ’77, ’78, that there were no real “punk bands,” except for maybe Silver Abuse. They wore tin foil and
they were really obnoxious and really bad. (Silver Abuse punk song) Bill, Santiago, my friend Bob and I formed a band called Silver Abuse. – You know it’s like everybody’s listening to Peter Frampton. And everybody has to be you know, virtuoso to be able to you record
and get on a label and get the records out. And the Ramones are doing
these three chord songs. And so it gave us hope. – We were totally incompetent. – Okay our first show was the
infamous Tutu’s Placenta show. We got asked to play there. I think it was a benefit
for the Gabba Gabba Gazette. – Which was the local
punk newspaper put out by Mary Alice Ramel, who was
dating our bass player. We just had these parties, where they were rent parties for our warehouse, and we’d sell beer there. And it was like 4300
block of West Fullerton. Which was no man’s land over there. – We went, we played, a riot started. People threw beer at us
and (inaudible) the PA. – I think I still have a scar here from the full beer can that hit me. – Whew, man, they were, they really pushed some buttons there, y’know. Their song titles alone, I don’t know. If you want me to quote some of them. Alright. All Jews Must Die. (punk music) – Oh yeah, oh. I mean, it’s interesting
when people walk up to you and say, “I really want to
kick your ass.” (laughing) Is there some reason why I
should not kick your ass? – And, you know, a good deal of people who were in the scene were
Jewish and black and gay and they were puttin’, y’know. I mean, I don’t know that
they were really racist, anti-Semitic guys, I just think that they
wanted the shock value. And they really got it. Because people were just appalled. People wanted to kill these guys. Which was kind of, stole
some of our thunder ’cause we were always the
band people wanted to kill. (laughing) – It was actually satirical at the time. The Nazis were marching in Skokie. So, we had that song and unfortunately the lyrics were not as intelligible as they could have been. So people actually took us seriously. – And the song was meant to be a parody of the American Nazis because basically, these people were, you know, complete, complete, imbeciles. – Oh well, maybe the fact
we were wearing (laughs) we were wearing World War
2 Nazi helmets didn’t help. – We kept telling ’em, “Make
it about something else.” “Kill somebody else, okay?” Then he would get drunk and
start singing, you know? – But, it was like, one of those songs that ended up like, haunting us, you know, for years and years and years, and having to explain to people, “I’m not a Nazi.” It was supposed to be a joke, okay? It wasn’t a funny joke, I understand that, now. (punk music) Since we always believed in recycling, we kept the music from the song and changed the lyrics to Dogs and Fun. It seemed to go over much better. ♫ Dogs have fun – After that show, I thought, “I want to do more.” “More than just get drunk and play.” So I said to Silver Abuse, “I am no longer going to play with you.” “I’m going to see if I can start a band.” After I left, the next gig also ended up in a riot. So the first two gigs involving these guys ended up in riots. ♫ Slow and painful ♫ Fun – Chicago was kind of behind, you know. It was like, LA and New
York had their scenes, and it took awhile for
Chicago to get with it, I think, you know. I mean initially there were some bands, you know, like Tutu and the Pirates and then there was sort of a bar scene. Kind of a new wave bar
scene with bands like Bohemia and Phil ‘N’ the Blanks, and, which you know, I mean they were cool, but, you know, it wasn’t the real thing. – It was like lame new
wave before we even knew how lame it could get. – ‘Cause before then,
you gotta remember this. It was Phil ‘N’ the Blanks, Bohemia, Wazmo Nariz, you know, just bullshit. Just bad. – A whole slew of these
like what we used to call skinny tie bands, you
know, bands from the burbs, you know, we were playing The Beatles and The Rolling Stones a month ago but, times are changing, let’s
put on some skinny ties and start playing some
power pop, you know. – Well it was still the skinny
ties and bell bottoms phase. ♫ Ooo ya ya ♫ Ooo ya ya ♫ Ooo ya ya ♫ Ooo ya ya ♫ Ooo ya ya – Their music wasn’t
really very aggressive or very loud. They weren’t talking
about destroying anything. They weren’t talking
about how ugly life was. Or any of those things. – We wanted like screeching and screaming and you know, angst. And that didn’t seem to have it at all. – None of them could hold a candle to what we were hearing around
the rest of the country. And so there was, just kind of waiting, is something ever gonna happen here. – ‘Cause really at the beginning, there were very few
records by Chicago bands. The first one that I can think of, well, like I said, the Mentally ILL single came out very, very early. – That Mentally ILL record
is the best record ever. (Mentally ILL- Gacy’s Place) – You can play that record to people today and you will still startle people with the crudity of that record. (Mentally ILL song – Gacy’s Place) It’s just unfathomable that somebody would make that record intentionally. But they did. (Mentally ILL song – Gacy’s Place) – I think the noise we
were just trying to make was something that would
really get everybody pissed off who listened to it. And that really was our goal. And when we actually achieved that, I think we were pretty proud of it. – We were, (mumbling). – Yeah, we were very pleased. (Mentally ILL song – Gacy’s Place) – Well first we just brought
them in to record stores. We’d sneak ’em in. It was like stealing, but, – Reverse. – Yeah. We sent them all over. We sent them to the whitehouse. – Sent ’em to Gacy in prison. Which we thought was a
major victory, actually. – Yeah, yeah, we were (inaudible). – Sick like John Wayne Gacy. – Almost all the other
big music scene places in America had kind of
become more involved with itself and gotten bigger, and done self-promotion and become cool. And in Chicago, the punk scene was sort of exclusively the territory of like, genuine misfits. – California and New York bands
always got a lot of press. And so people knew who they were. And they developed a greater following than Chicago bands. They had a media that was more willing to talk about them and cover them and here it was like pulling teeth. – There was the Illinois Entertainer which, besides being retarded, has a curse on it. So you don’t want to be associated with the Illinois Entertainer. Going back 30 years I think, if your picture appears on the cover of the Illinois Entertainer, you go into an immediate career tailspin. It’s like an unavoidable curse. But there was The Coolest Retard. Which was a great fanzine. It was like, among the best fanzines ever, and it happened to come out of Chicago. – Craig was a really important person, started the Coolest Retard, it was another important thing that kind of kept our little scene going. – You can tell when reading the articles that whoever had written the article was really excited about whatever it was that they were writing about. – Craig and Terry would always be the two to interview and then Terry Nelson had his radio show at WZRD, at Northeastern. – [Radio] Hear this! Sunday morning Nightmare! – Terry Nelson I think, is really one of the driving personalities in the Chicago punk scene. I mean, he put punk rock
on the radio in Chicago as early as anybody else
did, maybe the first. And he spent a lot of time
goin’ over to England. So he knew the bands and
when the bands came here he would bring them over to the station and interview ’em and
the bands start to say, “Hey, why don’t you tape our concerts?” “You can play ’em.” And he found out I was
into recording and stuff. So, sometime thereafter he said, “Hey, why don’t you
help me record the show? – I was one of the
contact people for Chicago so I would usually do an interview and we would record the show for whoever they brought through which was an awful lot of bands, it was great. – [Radio] This is Paul Weller of the Jam, and you’re listening to WZRD, Chicago, can you dig it? – [Radio] I’m Captain Sensible, this is Sunday Morning Nightmare. Hey, how’s my tip of the top? – [Radio] This is Lux Interior here with your mother. Listening to the Sunday
Morning Nightmare show. (evil laugh) – [Radio] This is Mick
Jones of the Clash on WZRD, where they guarantee you
will never hear Foreigner. – [Radio] This was a very
hastily arranged interview and we have run into some problems with the security people
here in the building so, the people from Black Flag are showing their identifications now
and (laughing in background). – By that time, Wax Trax had opened and that was the mecca
for punks in Chicago. If you wanted to buy records,
you went to Wax Trax. – I remember Steven and I
walking down Lincoln Avenue maybe a month before they
opened in ’78, I wanna say. And they’d already started
putting out some of the bins and they had a Suicide Commandos record in front of one of the bins. In one of the other
bins was the Roxy music and maybe the Saints or something. I was kind of like, “Wow.” “If that’s like, right
at the front, you know,” “it’s not stuck in the back like it is” “at every other record store
you’ve been to in town.” You don’t have to ask ’em to order it. – They were up to date. So if X-Ray Spex released a record, Wax Trax would have it, in stock, you know, within the week. – Kids would drive in
two, three, four hours to go to that store over the weekend to get stuff ’cause they
couldn’t get anything. – Jim Nash and Danny were just so into new bands and new grooves. And really unbiased until they became part of that whole Front 242 problem. And they would just turn you
on to so many great bands. They would say, did you hear
this, did you hear this? You know, every time you went in there, you’d say, “Jim, what’s new?” “Oh, did you hear this?” “Play that.” And then he would just blast
it through the speakers. – And it was also a point
where we could all go and see other people like us. – And it was a time that you
could walk down the street and see somebody wear a leather jacket and know instantly you
had some kind of rapport musically with this person. – Well Chicago, if you dressed that way, you were into the music. (punk music) – After Silver Abuse, the remaining members started a band called the Way-Outs. – Which was a little bit more of a pop-oriented kind of band. You know, fast, short songs. – Our set was 26 songs in
just a little over 30 minutes. So they were quick. – During that time was when I wrote this song called Surf Combat that had only two chords. (The Way-Outs – Surf Combat) ♫ (inaudible lyric) ♫ Makin’ (inaudible) scream ♫ I ain’t got the balls ♫ In the crazy way I dream ♫ The day’s sun makes we wanna kill – And together with Naked Ray Gun who also we shared rehearsal space with, we decided to throw a party and kind of premiere the band. Naked Ray Gun at that time
was called Negro Commando. (Naked Raygun punk music) – I was at the Exit one night and I saw Marko Pezzati playing pinball. And he had the look. He was just dressed to
the nines as a punk. I asked him if he wanted to start a band. That I was lookin’ to start a band. He said, “Yeah.” – Which is weird, ’cause he didn’t know anything about playing in a band. But he went and bought a bass and he started playing bass
with Santiago Durango. (bass guitar music) I used to go see him practice and they just totally sucked, you know. Like these bands I was in was like, much more pro than that. – Jeff, at the time,
was playing in a spandex heavy-metal band out in the suburbs called Condor. And we went out to some suburban club to watch him. Jeff was wearing spandex
and he had an afro, you know, out to here. But he could really
sing, so, we said, yeah. So we asked him if he wanted to sing. – What I really wanted to do was like sing for this shitty band that Santiago and my brother were in. But since Santiago came up to me one day at the bar O’Banion’s and he said, “You know, you really need
to like, cut your hair.” – You know, how could I not
ask him to cut that (laughing). That was not punk. – Then I cut my hair and I started singing for those guys and I quit that crappy ass suburban band I was in. – The Way-outs and Silver Abuse and Naked Raygun and Toothpaste, at different times all
had very similar lineups. And they would do a lot of the same songs. I think they all did Bomb Shelter. ♫ Bomb shelter ♫ Bomb shelter ♫ Bomb shelter ♫ Bomb shelter (punk music beat) – Took awhile for it to really, finally, gel and become Naked Raygun. It was sort of an organism evolving, and trying this out to see if it worked, if it doesn’t and if it
doesn’t then, you know, out you go. – The early Naked Raygun was wack. They were more bizarre, freaky. They were very visual, almost goth dark. (Naked Raygun – punk song) – Every now and again you’d think that you were looking at a rockabilly band because they would have these sort of goofy rockabilly heps and hos and heys. And then sometimes you’d
think you were listening to some, like a retarded art project, just because it would be
all beeps and squiggles and mumbling. ♫ I love you ♫ I really love you ♫ I love you And then sometimes it was just, sounded like, heavy metal. (heavy music beat) At any rate, Naked Raygun blew my mind. They were the weirdest band, best band, I’d ever seen. (punk music) – You know, we went through some drummers, I think eventually Colao, Jim Colao, really became our drummer. – Jim Colao was a great, great drummer. He probably had the best
rhythm of any drummer I’ve ever drummed with ever. He has more rhythm than any
white man I’ve ever met. He just, it’s unbelievable. Timing and sense of rhythm,
really over the top. – They had this crazy,
jungle robot drumming. Sort of a manic compulsive drumming. – I think he just has
rhythms going in his head, like 24 hours a day. (fast drum beat) At the end of his run with Raygun he was actually really
annoying, ’cause of that. I mean he’d be just like over the top annoying with rhythm. Like you know, just too
much, just back off dude. (punk rock beat) – I still don’t even know
how to pigeon hole them. I don’t even know what
you’d call Naked Raygun. Like, Italian art surf
punk anthem punk, or, I don’t know. – One thing that we did want to do was we wanted to be original. We did not want to sound like somebody else. We wanted to forge our own sound. In fact, we wanted to
forge a Chicago sound. (punk rock) – Prior to that whole scene evolving, a band playing original music
could not exist in Chicago. If you didn’t play 90 percent covers, and that was what was on
the radio at the time, or oldies, you couldn’t play. – Clubs would not allow
kids with original music to play. With their own material. It was cover bands or nothing. – And suddenly, you know,
we’re renting lofts, and, putting on shows,
down in the Fulton Market and we’re having great shows. Five and six bands, white light, y’know. (laughing) Selling that
beer, on our own, y’know. And that’s how we had live music. And then pretty soon the
clubs were findin’ out that we were makin’ more money than they were. So, places like Gazebo, believe it or not, on Lincoln Avenue, starts
havin’ punk rock bands, y’know. Mother starts having
punk night on Mondays. – People started opening up
clubs all over the place. Everything, you know, all of a sudden it was like punk this,
new wave that, you know. It was all over. And this guy, who was gay, opened up this club called Ann Arkee’s. He’d gotten the money from the mob to open up this club. And he owed them a lot of money. And he couldn’t pay ’em. And they were unhappy about that. – They had kind of a
strange ending to the club because they found the
guy dead in his club with a mic stand stuck
up his ass (laughing). – Which I actually think
is kind of overkill. But, I guess the mob is not
really known for subtlety. – Shortly after La Mere
burned, the next big thing that hit town was like
this Patti Smith concert. You had all these cryin’
punks and the audience, “Patti they burned La Mere.” And she said, “Build another one.” You know, and so yeah, build another one. (punk music beat) – O’Banion’s came about
because Nancy Rapchak who was a DJ at O’Banion’s for years, she came to us at the
record store and said, “Hey, are you guys still lookin’ for” “a place to do that punk rock?” And we said, “Yeah, why?” “You should go talk to this guy Russell” “at this bar O’Banion’s.” Like if he has three people in the bar on any night, he’s jammed. Nancy set up a meeting, we
went and talked to this guy, and he was like, sort of
a leather guy, you know. The leather and bondage guy, but. We sat down and talked to him, and we told him, we guaranteed him, people if he would give us a night, or two nights. The DJ stuff that was at La Mere became the DJ stuff at O’Banion’s. – The scene was a little
bit different at O’Banion’s. It was a little rougher,
because of the neighborhood. With all the leatherboys and stuff. – People would still come to the bar who are lesbians or flamingly gay and wanted to show that
kind of side of themselves. Or else maybe like into
S&M and were dressed more like that and somehow punk rock, all mixed together. It made for a very lively atmosphere. – It was totally different than La Mere. The music changed, the atmosphere changed, and it wasn’t a first
wave of punks anymore. It was different people. – O’Banion’s became more violent than La Mere ever was. – I have a scar right
here from O’Banion’s. I got jumped on. – That’s one of the reasons
I kind of quit O’Banion’s. Like hey, this dude’s paying
me like eight dollars an hour to maybe get an ass whoopin’ (laughing). It ain’t worth it. – Do I feel good about workin’ there for like two and a half years, and in two and a half
years bein’ in probably 375 fights? Nobody has 375 fights in 18 lifetimes. – I know there was some
fights and this and that but, overall, it was a
dance party (laughing). – We probably ranked
as the worst “new wave” punk band I’d ever heard
up until the Azbans. I owned a bar that was
called the Greenleaf up in Rogers Park. I had pretty good business, just as a neighborhood gay bar. And it wasn’t until after La Mere burned, and I would say probably the day after that I said, “Okay,
we’re changin’ the bar.” And there was a lot of anger toward me in the gay community. That I would take a gay bar and turn it into a punk bar. As a gay bar, the
neighbors were just brutal. They did not want a gay
bar in their neighborhood. When we turned it punk,
at first the neighbors didn’t know it. And I remember the first
time they came in to fagbash. And got the shit knocked out of ’em by a bunch of punks. And you would think that
now they’re going to leave us alone. What they did was, the police harassment became just intolerable. In the course of all the Oz’s I went to jail 20 times in 18 months. And so we knew we had to make a move and I had set up a new space
for Oz on Hubbard Street. It was a place that was called the Ranch. It was definitely connected
with outfit and awe. – It was basically a, kind of
a geriatric gay leather bar. And it was fairly interesting ’cause you know, the old duffers that would be hanging out there would be absolutely
delighted to see all these you know, young boys
in like leather jackets and ripped tee shirts. – Oz was a dump. On Hubbard (laughing). – It was creepy. You walk around, you’re like, “Oh, man.” “Scaryville down here.” And we’re actually going to go down here and play music. It was just so in with the punk thing, in my mind, how it should be. – That’s when we really started
to have a scene, I think. – Strike Under was a hard band, the first Chicago band that was a hard punk band. ♫ 1, 2, 3, 4 (heavy punk music) – They were the main band to me. But that’s me. I’m not the only one who
feels that way about it. – They were fabulous. They were incredible. They were the best band. (punk music) – I thought this is the first time I’d actually seen someone who was kind of dangerous sounding. (punk music) Just ’cause they were loud and abrasive and there wasn’t an air of new wavey-ness to them at all. – They opened the door. They were the first hard band in Chicago. The first punk band you’d go, “Yeah, this is fuckin’
punk, this is cool.” They weren’t artsy at all. (punk music) – You know, you hear them, and it’s like why even bother, these
kids are so much better than we are, you know. Let’s just hang it up. But on the other hand, it’s like exciting. Because it’s like, shit, yes. There’s some other great bands that are here with us. – Just at that time
people were really happy to see some really exciting
music start in Chicago. (punk music) – For awhile, Oz became our hangout. What we’d do is, Thursday
nights we’d have practice and then we’d head over to Oz, you know. And so, it was only fitting that Oz was to be or first gig. And that was our first gig
in like November of 1980. (punk music) ♫ I live in a body bag ♫ I live in a body bag – First time I saw the Effigies probably was at Oz. And I thought they were scary, scary good. They were so good, I was like, damn. Now I gotta get better because these guys will blow us offstage. First of all, we could
never play with these guys. They’re too good. – I’m like this is just so great. This is what music should sound like. (punk music) – A quarter of the way
through their first song which I still remember was Below the Drop, the first song I ever saw them play live, bombs just went off in my head. – It blew everybody
way, everybody like, aw. Wow! – I mean it was incredible. They scared me, they were so great. (hard punk music) – Nobody I know could
deliver songs standing still. With such intensity and
anger, whatever it was that drove him. – They had Earl. Who was fresh from a heavy metal band. He could really, really play. (guitar solo) Word spread quickly there was these two powerful new bands, and Naked Raygun was right there with us, too. – I thought that we were the only punks. So, it was like, these different tribes that come up independently, and eventually we all became aware of each other. (drum beat) – And the last place I
think I’m ever really going to have a hassle doing a punk bar is surrounded by all these gay bars. And I know the owners of these gay bars, we’ve known each other for years. Was I wrong (laughing). They did not want a punk bar. That I used to tell
them, “It pisses you off” “because the leather looks so much better” “on my kids than your kids.” – At the time, the gay
community in Chicago was getting hammered
pretty hard by the cops. And the cops hated the punks even more than the gay folks. And part of it was a
number of the Chicago punks started wearin’ Chicago cop jackets. They wouldn’t leave the
Chicago Police tag on but they would leave the
Chicago flag on there. It was like Chicago punks. And the cops, whenever they saw a punk wearin’ a cop leather jacket
or somethin’ like that, it would set ’em off. – Then we went up to 3714 on Broadway. Which was unfortunately about two blocks from the police station there. Not a good call (laughing). – And that became the Oz. When people say Oz, that’s
the one they talk about. – We opened the doors I
think around 10, 11 at night. And we kept it goin’ ’til
about 7 in the morning. And it was bring your own. – He pretty much put
his liquor license and probably even his freedom
on the line to let us play at Oz, with a 21 year old drinking age. We were all clearly not even close. – It became our home by necessity because nobody else would book us. – We saw Oz and went, “Oh wow.” – “What a dive.” I mean it had your typical, you know, punk in the corner, throwin’ up. The other guy you know, gettin’ a blow job in the other corner and your other guy punchin’ out his girlfriend
in the other corner. (laughing) It was nuts. – There was some violent
things happen there. But there’s been violent stuff happening in rock and roll forever. – I mean, girl fights and guy fights and- – Especially girl fights. – Oh Jesus. (laughing) Some of those, like women-
– They were the worst. – And I know a few of ’em now. – I had problems in the bar,
our people, we just solved it. And sometimes it wasn’t great. I remember one night one of the Neo Nazis was,
I didn’t want him in there, and we ended up putting him through the front plate glass
which was kind of nice because it allowed me to
board up the rest of the club so you couldn’t see in at all (laughing). (slow punk beat) – At the time, there was a guy who was friends with Terry
Nelson named George Kapoulas. And they started a record
label called Autumn Records. And their first release
was the girl band DA. ♫ It’s in the night time world ♫ So changed from the day ♫ Well feelings were born in ♫ Love is what you pay – Two really stellar records, really good seven inch single and an excellent EP called Time Will Be Kind. They were, I think, a really brave group. They always did what they wanted to do. They never felt the need to change because of outside influences. ♫ In dark rooms – Well they were strange band, they sort of, well for one thing, they didn’t have an audience. Because the bar scene,
you know, the Bohemia and that scene, they said, ah, those guys are like punk. They’re lost with all those punk bands. And the punks went like,
ah, those guys ain’t punk. So they kind of lived in this netherworld. (slow music beat) – Three months, no hassles, no cops. No busts. I just, I can’t believe it. This feels so good. The day I got my liquor license, they raided my club and arrested me. Jane Byrne was the mayor of Chicago. And she was startin’ to
come down on some stuff that had been goin’ on for awhile. So the Oz was getting
hassled on a regular basis by the cops. – That’s about the time
the Huntington Beach thing is exploding, With Black Flag, and (mumbles) and Circle
Jerks and all of that. And there was a lot being written, you know, in newspapers, about this huge, hardcore scene. My understanding is that Mayor Jane Byrne had the police call LA and say, “We have a potential problem here” “with this club going that route.” And the advice was, stop ’em now. – [Singer] This is the
music to the soundtrack of the album, of the movie, of the stage show, of the Oz Album. – [Woman] Get off the fuckin’ stage! – [Man] The Busted at Oz
album, I think, helped to get some national
recognition for Chicago. – Two bands playing every night, the bands would play
between midnight and 6 AM, and Tim Powell had a sound
truck out in the street and we’re hoping the cops
wouldn’t see the wires and no one could leave until it was over and we just thought, “Can
we get through three days” “without being busted,” and, we did. – Jeff Pezzati from Naked
Raygun provided the PA gear, such as it was. And I had my original truck there, known as the Vomit Comet. So it was Naked Raygun, the Effigies, Strike Under, DA, Silver
Abuse and the Subverts. Subverts were just an amazing band, in fact, the Busted at Oz album, Subverts steal that album. ♫ Look at the country ♫ It’s fallin’ apart ♫ All of the people have ♫ Nothin’ at heart ♫ Nobody even knows where to start ♫ State of the union ♫ A state of confusion ♫ Standards of living ♫ Is just an illusion ♫ Nobody knows the (inaudible) ♫ All they ever do is ♫ Try to preach deceipt ♫ Always gotta have ♫ Somethin’ up that sleeve ♫ State of the union ♫ It’s a state of emergency ♫ We gotta do something ♫ Voice of the people ♫ Emergency ♫ (inaudible lyric) ♫ Looks like it’s up to me and you ♫ Now now now ♫ Don’t wait until tomorrow ♫ When it’ll be too late ♫ We all need the future ♫ Hope your (inaudible) great ♫ Look at Kentucky ♫ It’s falling apart ♫ Nobody even knows where to start ♫ State of the union ♫ It’s a state of confusion ♫ Standards of living ♫ It’s an illusion ♫ (Inaudible lyric) (guitar solo) ♫ Look at the country ♫ It’s fallin’ apart ♫ Not a lot of people have ♫ Lots at heart ♫ Nobody even knows where to start ♫ State of the union ♫ It’s a state of emergency ♫ Gotta do somethin’ ♫ Can’t you see ♫ The voice of the people – You know, the Naked Raygun stuff, we busted it out, stinks. A rock band’s sounding
much better right now. I’m tellin’ ya, back then
we weren’t that good. We had good attitude and
stuff, and looked cool but that was about it. (punk music beat) ♫ 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4 ♫ Living my (inaudible lyric) ♫ And I’ve had it ♫ (Inaudible) suburban ballot ♫ Virtue of my good routines (inaudible) ♫ (Inaudible) I regret
it, -gret it, -gret it ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots for me ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots for me (guitar solo) ♫ (Inaudible) tabletop he made ♫ You think that what you’ve got’s ♫ The only way ♫ (inaudible lyric) ♫ ‘Cause I’ll never regret
it, -gret it, -gret it ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots for me ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots ♫ Guns or ballots for me (instrumental break) – The last night we were recording the cops came in and they were going to shut the joint down. – Dem got up on the mic and he said, “Well I’ve got good news and bad news.” “The bad news is, this will probably” “be the last night we’re open,” “we’re going to get closed tonight.” “The good news is, somebody got shot” “down the street and the
cops are going to be” “tied up with that for a couple of hours,” “so we have time to get this last set in.” – They said, someone had spray painted closed for being punk. It wasn’t closed for being punk. It was closed because
they were serving alcohol to people that were not of age, and, they weren’t, you know,
greasing the wheels. If you live in reality land,
that’s part of reality. – We used to call them the Oz bands but it was unfair to
call them hardcore bands. I guess they kind of got
lumped into that as well. But the Oz bands, and
the first of our bands to get a record out was
Strike Under on Wax Trax. (punk music) – Jim Nash came to one of
our gigs in January of 1981 and said, “I want to do a
record with these guys.” Bob Furem’s roommate was
a man named Tim Powell. He let us into the
studio he was workin’ at, After hours, recorded us,
essentially for nothin’. Just ’cause he thought it was cool. – So we recorded this five song EP called Immediate Action by Strike Under. And that became Wax Trax
001, it was the first Wax Trax release. – Label mates with Divine at the time, born to be cheap. I think that was 002. (punk music) – Chris and I hand silk
screened all the album covers. Which was way too much work. – It started this trend
of Chicago punk bands recording 12 inch records at 45 rpm, like disco singles, but they were EPs. I think that’s the best one of all. I just love that record. – That’s a great record and they weren’t around for very long. It’s almost like the tensions of the band sort of pulled it apart, too quickly. (punk music) – There was a lot of inner
turmoil with Strike Under. – Yeah, well, the two
brothers, Chris and Steve Bjorklund were always
fighting, always fighting. – They had some nights
that were just genius and just played all
their songs brilliantly, and some nights Chris and Steve just got into fistfights onstage
and never finished the set. I remember it at Waves, they got in this fistfight in the dressing room and trashed the whole place and got kicked out and they could never come back forever. – And Steve just lost it and like, walked off the stage, like picked up a pinball machine, slammed it down, broke the glass on it, you know, and then like left the club. – I mean, the Oz thing was the greatest. They had some tremendous explosion before they went onstage. And when they went onstage, I think they, well, they would’ve
liked to kill each other. They were like, just like
sparks flying through the air. There was that instrumental
on the Oz album, it was so hot. (punk instrumentals) – These guys would always play two guitars and they’d never be in tune. And they’d sit there and bicker onstage. And people thought it was like a gimmick. Like it was an act or something. But it wasn’t. – You’re out of tune,
no you’re out of tune, no you’re out of tune, bam. – We’re exactly in tune tonight. (punk instrumentals) – I read something that
Hüsker Dü came back to Minneapolis and said they’d seen us at a show. The report was, there’s this skinhead band called Strike Under, and when the brothers go out of tune, they punch each other. And that wasn’t exactly the
way it was, but you know. – I don’t think we ever duked it out. I think we certainly had our arguments. I don’t think any
punches were ever thrown. – I think there were punches thrown. (punk instrumentals) There was a show they did down at, I think it was the UIC,
University of Illinois Chicago, I think there were punches at that show. That was like maybe the
second to last show they did. – Again, that might have
been part of our “reputation” that got blown up a little
bit more than it was. Maybe we shouted at each other
a couple of times onstage. You know, accentuating the negative. – They can’t downplay it. I was there, I saw that stuff. They hated each other
but they were brothers. – That friction must have
caused them to really write some great material. It’s just, unfortunately
it also cost them to you know, split ways. – George and Terry approached the Effigies and said, hey, let’s make a record. So, we brought them out to Sound Pressions to make Haunted Town. (punk music) – You know, I think the Effigies sort of in a way they kind of
pioneered a new sort of punk. Like a metal punk that
maybe hadn’t existed really quite like that, you know. – It was just a cut above everybody else’s stuff at that point in time. Better lyrics, better musicianship and the songs were
heavy as heavy could get for back then. – It was definitely heavy. (Effigies – Haunted Town) – They say that the big
guitar sound of Chicago, well, it was that record, not some Steve Albini record, Steve. (punk instrumentals) – Haunted Town, We’re Da Machine, and Bodybag are three probably greatest, stand-out pieces of vinyl
to come out of Chicago. I mean, they made you
want to do something. – We had these reviews,
these guys would say, “This album is misguided patriotism.” Because these knuckleheads saw the flag on the front and said,
“This is the American flag.” It’s not, it’s Chicago. This is what we are, you know. Suburbanhead or not,
we understand Chicago, we know what it’s about. And that was Haunted Town. ♫ Live in a haunted town ♫ A haunted town – I was doin’ shows for WXRT at that time and working out the studio in (inaudible) and I got a phone call one day from somebody and they
said, “Somebody from” “the Donahue show’s on the phone.” So I said, “I’ll take it.” “So, we’re going to do an episode” “on the Donahue show about punk.” I’m like, cool. She goes, “We need some
punks on the show.” “Well, they have to look weird.” “They have to be weird and freaky.” I’m like, “Well, if
you want a freak show,” “I’m not sure these people
are going to be into it.” “Well they have to look weird.” And obviously she was just
doing the classic setup where you put the weird freaky people on and then they get hammered by all the suburban moms in the audience. – I mean, stand up just a second. – My children but I don’t want one that’s got purple hair standin’ up. (audience laughing) Or a daughter that might be on drugs. I’d rather see her on drugs than that. (audience reacting) – The anti punk lady was saying, “These kids are into drugs,” “they’re into self mutilation,” “they’re into violence,” “they slam dance and get cut up.” – Apparently you put this on your- – [Woman] On the wrist. – [Man] On the wrist, and
then as you dance, you- – [Woman] You slam. – [Man] You, slam dancing. And the idea is to what, to
injure the other person, or? – Yeah. (punks disagreeing) – You just go out and have fun, like if somebody falls on the floor, you know they could get
trampled or something, but everybody will always help you up. You know, nobody will let you get down or get your head smashed, nobody’s out to beat anybody’s head in. – [Man] But I don’t understand
the hurt part of it. – It’s like football. – I’ve seen a lot more
people hurt at a high school or college football game than any night or any month of anybody dancing anywhere. – And the Chicago punks are trying to get the point across. That the way it was in California with a bunch of disaffected, snotty, rich suburban kids, and in Chicago it was mostly just street-level,
hard-workin’ folks who were punks. It wasn’t that, they truly tried to make that distinction on the show, which completely went over the heads of everybody in the audience. – [Man] How do you feel about
the future, your future? – I don’t know, that’s pretty ambiguous. – [Man] You don’t care? – Not really. – He’s a what? Why is he a moron? – He’s just, he’s just a silly guy. I mean he’s got a dumb haircut. I mean, see the thing about it is if, you could be a punk rocker or you can be a silly fool, you know, you can make yourself, they’re talkin’ about cuttin’ yourself up and takin’ a lot of drugs
or, anything like that and you can do that kind of stuff and you can have a stupid purple haircut or anything like that,
or you can listen to music that says something about, about evil stuff, you know. And you can still have class, you can still be a regular person. And listen to that kind of music. You don’t have to be that stupid. – I agree, why shouldn’t
you then encourage me to get the kids back together
again with their parents? – You’re not trying to
get them back together with their parents, you’re trying to get them to
be just like their parents. – [Woman] How do you know that? – I wonder if these people would fight for our country if a war broke out. – [All] No! – [Man] How do you feel about that? – I feel that they stink, then. – People thought that we
wanted to bring down the world, destroy the world. We were like the most dangerous thing. And now that I’m old I
wish that we would have allowed them to believe that. I wish we would have scared
the hell out of them. – So in DecKalb I had formed
this band called Direct Drive with Joe Skidari, who ended
up in AoF and two other guys. We’re doin’ everything from Blondie to Bruce Springsteen covers. And there’s a couple of
songs that we’re throwing in that we’ve written
ourselves, but they sound very Clash derivative. And so, when Direct Drive comes to Chicago we start playing shows. I think we’re a very derivative band, we don’t have a very unique sound, we’re not a very good band. – Kind of a cross between the Clash and the Who or something. It was very rockish. – Well, ’cause of Vic it was a cross between Bruce Springsteen and somethin’. – I remember thinking that they seemed kind of like punk rock Bruce Springsteen. – Parents lived in the Washington, DC area and so at Christmas time I’d
fly home and see my folks, and my sister got
involved in DC punk scene. And so she was saying, “Oh, come down” “and see the Bad Brains.” The Bad Brains were like the same feeling that I had at the Clash show. I mean just being completely floored. Went back to Chicago
and I said to the guys, “We’re doing this wrong.” “We’re trying to copy bands.” “Let’s find something that
nobody else in Chicago is doing” “and let’s make it our own.” Now, most of the bands
in Chicago at that time were playing pretty mid-tempo punk rock. It’s a 4/4 (imitates drum beat) and we just said, let’s play fast. If nothing else we can be
the fastest band in the city. And probably within three
months we were, without a doubt. This notion of a hardcore of
music that was so unmusical you could barely tolerate it
hadn’t yet come into being. What I saw in DC were
the Bad Brains, Faith, Minor Threat, bands
that were playing music that you couldn’t dance to. It’s like be-bop to jazz, right. You couldn’t dance to it any more. It was almost conceptual art. And then we did What we Want is Free, early ’82, out in Schaumburg. And then we put that out ourselves. So by that point we
had really crystallized a pretty aggressive sound. – You know they were doing
stuff that other bands weren’t doing, like some kind
of strange time signatures, Vic would sometimes play
with an acoustic guitar, and that was like, oh
my God, what the hell is he doing up there
with an acoustic guitar! – There were people in the AoF
camp that hated the Effigies and there were people in the Effigies camp that hated Aof. – It’s like our crowds never
really overlapped, you know. In my mind at least,
Articles of Faith fans really weren’t Effigies fans. – Those AoF guys were much
more like me, like politically but I still always
thought that the Effigies were the greatest. – Haunted town still stands
up along any fuckin’ record. But they were just fuckin’ crabby and shit and they would go out of town
and they would just talk shit about everybody in Chicago in interviews, so everybody was like, fuck you. – Because we were touring the country and they were touring the country too, we go into these other
towns, Boston or New York, or something, and we’d see a local fanzine and we’d see them just raggin’ on us, just bad rappin’ us. I’ll tell you the truth, I
was really hurt at first. I mean, I like the Effigies, I wanted to be part of their world, but they didn’t want
me part of their world, whatever, you know, whatever. – I like Vic Bondy, Vic
Bondy’s a smart guy. He’s a good guy, he’s a good musician. I was never a big fan
of Articles of Faith. To me, they were in the category of kind of the Dead Kennedy
maximum rock and roll bands and I never really liked all those bands. I thought they were talking at a very, they were talking very condescendingly, on a certain level. – The Effigies used to get really intense about how AoF subverted them and AoF turned everybody against the Effigies. I wouldn’t doubt that
they are still telling that story today, how AoF turned the city against the Effigies. We didn’t turn anybody against anybody. – Vic Bondy had a big mouth. And he like, trumped up
this feud with the Effigies, calling them Nazis, of course, they were like really
pushing left wing communism I mean, you couldn’t talk
to the guy without him spouting Stalin quotes or whatever at you. – He was an instigator. He was always trying to
throw gas in the fire. I think he liked the
controversy, ’cause it made, it brought his band
more into the spotlight. – I was at Tutt’s the night that Kezdy started spouting his
right-wing bullshit from stage and people literally sat on their hands. At that show, right. And they had to stop the show. – It was just kind of ridiculous. I mean, to have some kind
of stage-in sit down, strike because the Effigies won’t do this. I mean, look, we’re a band. Come see us if you like
us, stay home if you don’t. Who cares. – And John Kedzy like fuckin’
took me aside one time, like fuckin’ 14, and he
takes me aside at Tutt’s, and is yellin’ at me, tellin’
me that I think I’m hot shit, he’s not from the fuckin’ suburbs, I’m not some spoiled, rich suburban kid, and goin’, you’re gonna grow
up to be a doctor and a lawyer, this is what I do, and bla bla bla bla. And I’m like, first of all I’m like 14, and you’re like 30, and you’re bald and you’re yelling at me, I
felt like I was in school. Like it’s not like I,
you know, missed a class. And so I’m getting
screamed at by this old guy and he’s like yelling
at me and I was like, is it a joke. I’m thinking to myself, I live
at Belmont and Palaski, man. Like I don’t live in the suburbs in a fuckin’ apartment,
you know what I mean. My family lives in, you’re
our lawyer (laughing). I was like, I’m a
bartender, bro (laughing). You won, okay? – They both have, like a, they both have loud mouth singers. So I think that’s probably the problem. Guys that like to talk, you know. – if it was just the Effigies scene and there was never an AoF, scene would have died in ’83 or ’84 when they stopped playing the punk because if you went
through the Effigies world you had to have a demo tape and you had to play a professional club that advertised in the paper. I don’t think that’s what
they wanted as a band, that’s just the way that scene worked. And with Articles of
Faith, it was just like, you have a band? We’ll find a place to fit ya in. Come on down. (punk music) – I was the bass player
in Government Issue before I came to Chicago. I started jammin’ with Eric and Wes, pretty soon thereafter Dave
immediately volunteered and really that’s when the band took off, ’cause you know, Dave was
like the best musician amongst the bunch of us, really. – They wrote cool, interesting stuff that didn’t sound like it
was influenced from Chicago. – Since I’d already been
in the hardcore scene like, even before I came to Chicago, some of use were already
joking about formula core. You know (laughing). – Savages came from a
little bit of a ’60’s route and could still crank it
up when they needed to and they were probably
one of the more fun bands to slam to. (punk rock music) ♫ Some things (inaudible) beyond ♫ People try to find (inaudible) ♫ Some things can be destroyed ♫ But they got weapons from the world – Pat and Vic, those two were the ones who did Wasteland Records, and paid for us to get a record out (laughing). – Pat lifted all the hall
shows, know what I mean. That was all their doing. – Minor Threat played
here, Big Boys played here, it was all because of them. – All we did was all ages shows. I mean, one of the problems AoF had was we couldn’t get billings in overage clubs so, again, we just said, fuck it, we’ll put on our own shows. – And they befriended
a lot of younger bands that were just starting at the time. They gave bands rehearsal spaces, they set up gigs for other
bands that came through town, there was the Central
American Social Club, and all that was culturally good, but that band itself, I couldn’t stand. – Somebody introduced me to him. “This is Steve Albini.” I’m like, “Aw, I love the
stuff you read about matter.” And he says, “Well I wish
I could say the same” “about your band.” And I say, “Excuse me?” He says, “Well, you know. You
and the bass player are okay,” “but that guitar player
that looks like Santana,” “he’s gotta go.” You know, and how am I going
to respond to that, right? I mean, Joe’s my bro. He does look like Santana,
but he’s my bro, ya know? – They were sort of embodied
by these two elements. They’re sort of excellent
musician frat band past which was embodied in their drummer, a totally gifted drummer who, you know, obviously liked Stewart Copeland. Like that kind of drummer, right. And their lead guitar player, who had obviously been
playing guitar his whole life and was into the solo, like “excellent” musicians. The kind we all hated. Their front man, Vic Bondi who was like, sort of typical, shouting,
yammering loudmouth, check my correct politics
type hardcore front man. Absolutely nothing about
that band appealed to me. And I thought that their
audience was stupid and I thought they were making
these broad stroke gestures of compliance, is the way I looked at it. Like okay, now we gotta play fast. We’re gonna play fast. We gotta have this
radical political element. Okay, we got this radical
political element, you know. Alright, I’m not going to sing anymore. I’m just going to stammer
and shout and you know, hold the mic like a baseball and spit. – When he pulls that stuff of, you know, bad rapping us, and then he comes to the Central American Social Club and hands out flyers for his fuckin’ show. And I come up to him and
I grab him by the collar and I’m like, “Get the fuck out of here.” And he gives me this
crying, little crybaby shit. You know, stand up, stand up. You want to be a man, stand the fuck up. Don’t fuckin’ cry about it. I mean all my life, I wish I just whipped his ass that night. I still do. I mean, Steve, if you’re out there bro, I’m ready to go many
rounds with you, my friend. I don’t think we’d last very long, if you’re still 75 goddam pounds. – Like everything it seemed
like a big deal at the time but I really couldn’t give a shit now. (punk instrumentals) – I did a lot of shows at C.O.D.’s and I did a lot of shows
with the Dead Kennedys. I did shows and tours with the Damned, with the Dickies, with Public Image at the Granada. Tony was the person that was sort of running the show, then. He was a con man. He would find owners of these clubs and he would convince them
that he should manage it. And he would skim as much
as he could off the top and he would run his scam
for as long as he could. He also had a scam where, he would know these
people, kind of the patrons over a certain amount of time, and he would always find somebody that he would sell the bar to. This was like right before
he was going to get fired, the owner finally figured out
that he’s being ripped off. And you know, fired Tony
and Tony would always find somebody that he would convince, “You want to buy the club,
’cause I’m the owner.” And it would just be a cash thing. “You give me the money, and
then the club is yours.” But, on the upside, Tony knew that I could put on shows, I had connections, I had been fighting to
get the Dead Kennedys to come to Chicago. I heard their first record that come out and I thought it was so great and I desperately wanted the Dead Kennedys to come to Chicago. I wanted to do the show, I wanted it to be all ages, and yeah, we’re gonna serve beer. We’re gonna do it. We’re gonna serve drinks,
and we’re gonna serve beer. You know, and if somebody
gave the cops some cashola, they look the other way, and at the same time, we were very careful and made sure that there were no problems. You know, and it worked. And I tell you, the kids
that got in those shows I mean, they thanked me and thanked me and thanked me, and oh,
it was so great, so great. You know, it’s hard when you really wanna go to those shows and
you’re not the right age you know. – It seemed to me, like
January, February of ’82 was when the underage scene
really started to pick up. ‘Cause there was a bunch
of clubs around town that were doing all ages shows. Which to this day, I don’t understand why, ’cause they weren’t money-makers. And there would be 35-50 people at any of these clubs. – And I think bands from out of town were really surprised that
they had to play two sets ’cause I didn’t find out until later that that didn’t exist any place else. You could have kids come to the show if you had an underset
and then an overset. – At first I think the older crowd might have been a little confused by the young kids kind of
just being little brats. And I think we went out of our way to be little shits. Makin’ fun of the old people, who were, 21, 22 at the time. – Most of the old guys wouldn’t even come to the underage shows. They’d just wait until the older shows, the old guy shows, the old
man shows, we called them. And all the kids would
come to the underage shows. And the underage shows were
always a whole lot more fun. We had all the kids up there. – A lot more energy, a lot crazier. The old guy shows, no
one would ever dance, no one would (inaudible). – [Chopper] Just stand
there and drink your beer. It was very boring. – It was the old school
versus the new school. Retrospectively it was really stupid. – I think the new kids may have been sort of a stylistic difference between the older punk bands. And it was starting to turn hardcore. Which was really just, a lot faster, a lot more about speed and hormones than any sort of art. (hardcore punk music) – It was just, a totally
different atmosphere, totally different energy. A lot more aggressive, a lot faster. A lot, just, aggressive overall. (Louie Louie punk style) – Chicago take on slam dancing wasn’t really slam dancing. It was more the Huntington
Beach strut (laughing). – I’ve tried to emulate the HB strut but I got the timing
all off and I would just hit myself in the chest. (laughing) The whole idea of slam dancing
is to pound the other person. But I pounded myself instead. I never quite figured it out. (fast drum beat) – There was sort of a straight
edge scene here at the time but, I know for me, it was
’cause I just never drank anyway, I never tried drinking. And it just seemed to
be somethin’ to kind of rub in the noses of everyone else that we were young and different. – I know I keep on saying
we were really obnoxious but it really, that’s so
much of what I remember. How totally annoyed the older people must have been by us. (punk music) – Well there were definitely older bands that were willing to help
us out, give us shows. Articles of Faith and Naked Raygun were really big supporters
of the younger kids. – Yeah we played one of
the first all ages shows that I can remember. And it was at Exit. And two people came. Anthony Alardi and Mike
from Rights of the Accused. Two people. – These guys were kids,
they were like raw, like 14 years old when their moms first started dropping
them off to pack us up. – We were coming from
that whole punk aesthetic that you know, you really
didn’t have to know what you were doing at all as long as you could figure out how to play a show. That was good enough. (punk music) – Rights of the Accused
were really a funny band. They were sort of like
the cultural equivalent of the Beastie Boys for Chicago. They took nothing seriously
and everything was a gag. ♫ One banana, two banana, three banana (punk instrumentals) – Their saving grace was their humor and that’s one thing that I think was sorely lacking from hardcore. – Rights of the Accused, I’d never seen a group of guys that young have such command over an audience. – Rights of the Accused had songs like Mean People Suck. ♫ Mean people suck ♫ Suck ♫ Mean people suck They had their tongue firmly in cheek and the rest of the hardcore bands didn’t. (punk instrumentals) – They were a funny punk band. You couldn’t take them seriously. They were like, you know. They wanted to be Motley Crue. There’s nothing wrong with that. That was fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. You couldn’t take them seriously. – Oh because everybody
else was so fuckin’ serious and creative, I mean, everybody’s playin’ the same fuckin’ three fuckin’ crappy ass chords fast. I mean, what difference
does it fuckin’ make. (laughing) You know, I’m gonna get up on stage and be really serious. Like, you know, ooh, watch my art. We’re trying to be Kate fuckin’ Bush. (laughing) – There was a couple of bands our age. There was Negative Element. There was End Result. That might have been it
at the time, actually. – Wax Trax was the central point, and that’s where everyone would go to pick up their cool
records and everything. And that’s where Steve, our brother, hooked up with Rights of the Accused. He found an ad that he answered. – The only guy who answered the ad. – During that time I was in a southern boogie band (laughing). – And then we got the
Stepes, and then we found this whole little clan of these guys from the far suburbs, who were (laughing) really bizarre and great and creative. – The first time I met him, we all worked in this fuckin’ donut shop. And Steve was the manager and Barry and Chopper both worked there. (laughing) Good idea. And they were always like
– Mr. Donut. hacking and sneezing and coughing and spittin’ in the
fuckin’ donut mix and shit. But the first time we met ’em, they were all excited because they had made a donut hole out of a golf ball. We’re givin’ it to a cop, man. Cops gettin’ a fuckin’ donut hole. (laughing) (punk instrumentals) – Remember Steve put his foot down when he caught Chopper holding Barry’s leg so he could shit in the chocolate batter. (laughing) And then Steve put his foot down because that’s crossin’,
that’s takin’ it too far. Like the fuckin’ golf ball. It could have shattered somebody’s teeth. Wasn’t fuckin’, that was, oh no. This has gone too far. (laughing) Oh my God, you guys are disgusting, as his spitting into the
fucking french curls. (punk instrumentals) – Negative element. Anti Pac-Man. ♫ Anti Pac-Man ♫ Anti Pac-Man ♫ Anti Pac-Man ♫ Got my check no more depression ♫ Got to play my life’s obsession ♫ Gobble those dots, forget the kids ♫ Can’t you see what fun it is? ♫ Anti Pac-Man ♫ Anti Pac-Man ♫ Arcades, malls, searching for him ♫ Got to play, got to win ♫ Eat the fruits and monsters too ♫ I got my game, so who needs you ♫ Anti Pac-Man ♫ Anti Pac-Man That whole seven inch I mean, is a landmark in itself, just because you didn’t have to be so glum and bitter to be punk rock in Chicago. – Pac Man was more important to us than Ronald Reagan at the time. – There was a band called Negative Element who were really sloppy and really messy. And totally chaotic and I liked them. (fast punk music) (inaudible lyrics) The thing that was interesting was that at the same time that this sort of generic, hardcore stuff starting coming in some of the freakiest fringe music was still being made. (fringe music instrumentals) End Result, who were a brilliant band, absolutely brilliant, like completely deconstructed music, like music that could have
only been made by them that way. And they were playing
at these hardcore shows. – The music was not
hardcore in the sense of aggressive, macho rock. But it was definitely avant garde, brilliant, inspired and insane. ♫ My dick is big ♫ Sweet love hurts ♫ It’ll be alright And End Result always billed themselves as the most hardcore band in Chicago. – And they really were. – They were more hardcore than us. They didn’t have a drummer. ♫ Gotta find a way ♫ To fill ♫ The gory hole ♫ It’s what you needed ♫ What you need ♫ I don’t need ♫ Is this love ♫ This is it! – Alan had played cello. So he tuned his guitar to the cello. Ron had played Trumpet
but at the beginning we didn’t use the trumpet, you know. Ron had played bass or guitar. And so we’d get in the basement and we’d say, “Well, we
don’t know what to do.” You know, Alan knew what to do but Ron and I, “We don’t know what to do.” And he’d say, “Play something.” And, “Okay stop, now play that again.” “Okay that’s a song.” “Next.” (laughing) You know, didn’t Johnny
Rotten say that like, we’re here to destroy rock and roll? So we took out most of the
structure and the chords. (laughing) So in other words punk
rock, maybe it wasn’t punk rock but it was definitely punk. – There was this sort
of sub-class of punk, the kiddie punk. 12 year old kids are just
banging and clanging, y’know. And they’re doing what people say kids do the way, you know,
adults tend to find it funny when babies dress
up in adult clothes. Wear daddy’s shoes, you know, try to walk around in daddy’s shoes. But that’s all it is. ♫ Kidding ♫ Around ♫ Kidding around – First guests today got
together and formed a band. Four young folk from Evenesteen, they call their group Verboten. – They’re going to play an original song they wrote called My Opinion. And now here they are, Verboten. (kiddie punk music) ♫ Move my way ♫ I’ll follow you ♫ Don’t go away ♫ You do what I do ♫ Don’t stop step back ♫ Don’t ya try to act (instrumentals) – Verboten’s guitar player was like six I think at the time
they started playin’. I don’t remember exactly
how old he was but he was a little guy. – I got my first guitar when I was nine. We were playing at Cubbie
Bear when I was 10. Opening up for Naked Raygun
and Rights of the Accused. (kiddie punk music) – Yeah, they were like 10 year olds and 11 year olds and they were awesome. Musically, they were really
good for how young they were. (kiddie punk music) ♫ He’s looking for the key ♫ But the act of you and me ♫ He’s trying to get inside ♫ Too bad he’s a slump guy ♫ (Inaudible) says a lot
’cause he’s a slump shot ♫ (Inaudible) too bad he’s a slump shot ♫ (Instrumentals) ♫ Always seem so hard ♫ He always misses (inaudible) ♫ His (inaudible) is always late ♫ Don’t look too good for his date ♫ (Inaudible) says a lot ♫ I bet he’s a slump shot ♫ (Inaudible lyrics) says a lot ♫ Bet he’s a slump shot – I had not yet gone
through puberty (laughing). I was 10 (laughing). ♫ Ooo, ooo ooo ooo oooo ♫ Hoo ooo ooo hooo hooo ooo ooo ooo (instrumentals) – Basement Screams was
this first 12 inch EP that Naked Raygun put out. I think it’s six songs. Jim Colao on drums, Camilo on bass, myself and Sant and then Haggerty played saxophone on a couple of songs. (saxophone lead music) – I remember saying, “You know what?” “I think it’ll sound better” “if I lay down a track of guitar.” I remember Santiago
saying “No, you’re not.” – Put it out ourself,
pressed 2,000 copies, distributed it ourself,
sold pretty decently, got some notoriety. And just about then, Santiago decided he was
going to split the band. I’m not sure what for what reason. – Yeah, because you know,
we would argue about stuff. It’s like, “I don’t
want to play that shit.” You know? And then they would turn around and say, “Well, we don’t want to play your shit.” You know, (laughing). So I don’t think they were
really (laughing) that upset. – At the time we had John Haggerty, playing saxophone on the first record. – As a sax player, John was
a really great guitarist. After Santiago decided to leave, he thought that the band
would fall apart without him and maybe it should have, but John stayed on and really took over the duties quite capably. – Haggerty’s sound was
just so solid and so huge and so always exactly the same. – Throb Throb was probably our
biggest artistic achievement. – ‘Cause that record really reflects four years even of songwriting
from different members. From like, maybe six members. – We kind of continued
writing songs after Sant left in the same style that
he had written them then. At least I did. You know, he started this
style, this whoa whoa thing. With some basic chords
and I just emulated it for as long as I could keep it going. You know, basically. (punk music) That’s when people really
started paying attention to us because we started to get more consistent and consistently good. We sounded good live then. (punk music) ♫ Whoa ♫ Whoooooa! ♫ I am a lizard ♫ I am a tumor ♫ I am a three-toed gecko ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey hey hey ♫ Heeeey ya! ♫ I am a fetus ♫ I have a tumor ♫ I am the local slime mold ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey hey hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey hey hey ♫ Metastasis ♫ Metastasis ♫ Do I have a country ♫ Do I have a tumor ♫ I am the emperor Tojo ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Ho ho ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Heyooo ♫ Metastasis ♫ Metastasis (guitar solo) ♫ Waaaay ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey hey hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey ♫ Hey hey hey – I remember the first
time I met Steve Albini. And it was a bad incident. Steve Bjorklund and I were
walkin’ down the street and Bjorklund was drunk, and we had just left Wax Trax Records and Bjorklund was like, he would drink during the day and stuff and he was shitfaced. As he came across Steve Albini. He goes, “Hey Steve, this is Jeff.” And we met and shook hands and stuff. And Bjorklund did this bad thing where he picked Albini up over his head like a professional wrestler,
picked him right up. Bjorklund was kind of a tough guy. Albini weighed about 75 pounds, you know. He picks Albini up and
he loses his balance. And he falls on him on
the sidewalk on his head. Bjorklund falls full on, on Albini, on the sidewalk in front of Wax Trax on Albini’s head. ♫ Waa ha ha, oh mama Albini gets really hurt, you know, and I had just met this guy. I’m like, “What the hell
is going on with this.” And Albini was really
bruised up and stuff. And he said, “No, I’m okay, I’m okay.” But I think he had like
a slight concussion and everything too. He was really hurt. And then Bjorklund and
I kind of walked off, and I said, “Wow, that
was weird,” you know. (punk music) – Big Black started as a demo tape that I had made of these
songs that I had written after I got kicked out of this band, Stations that I was in. I had given the demo tape
to a bunch of people, basically saying if you
can think of anybody that would like this,
that would play with me, let me know. Jeff Pezzati heard it and he
was kind of excited by it. He was like, “Man, I like that record.” “If you still need somebody to play with,” “I’ll play with you.” – So I said, “Steve, i
could probably bass,” you know, “even though I never have.” “I could figure out how to play it.” “Sounds pretty simple.” – So Jeff and I started playing together, trying to put together a live version of the band, basically. It was him and me and a drum machine. – And then we started practicing in Naked Raygun’s practice space. – And about that point in the rehearsal, which was maybe two hours into it, Santiago came downstairs and he was obviously frustrated. He had been trying to
watch a football game on this little portable television that he had in his bedroom. And he couldn’t hear the football game. – I know the moment, ’cause I couldn’t, you know, I was miserable. And so I sat there and
I thought to myself, “I can stay up here and fume and just” “get really aggravated,
or I can do something fun” “and go downstairs and see
if they’ll let me play.” – So he just came down
and put on his guitar and said, “Do you mind
if I play with you?” “I’m not enjoying the
football game upstairs.” So, like that, literally, over the course of about an hour and a half, my two favorite musicians
from my favorite band in the world were playing in a band with me. You know, that was a pretty
gratifying afternoon. (punk music) – It just really worked with me and Steve. It was a natural. It’s like a telepathic thing. (punk music) – We were really well-hated
at the time in Chicago. ‘Cause nobody liked Albini and everybody used to ask me, “Why are you playing with that jerk?” (punk music) – I was quite comfortable with the idea that we weren’t a popular band, you know? It didn’t bother me at all. Like, if the people that like, you know, Articles of Faith and Life Sentence and, if those kids don’t like us, that’s fine. (hardcore punk music) The influence of hardcore on Chicago I think was a really bad one. (hardcore punk music) New bands coming up
suddenly had a template. Like, okay, we can sound like that. We can sound like the Dead Kennedys or we can sound like Minor Threat. And then it’ll be preordained
that we will be good. ♫ I am ♫ A (inaudible) and ♫ And my quest ♫ Find the (inaudible) – When you know, everybody’s conforming to a certain look and a certain attitude it was kind of a bummer, I mean, you look out there at
everything coming up, everybody of a certain age or a certain background or something, and they all kind of look the same. They all kind of act the same. And they all kind of
listen to the same music. And you start to think, wow. This is what I was getting
away from before, you know. – And pretty soon, things got
bigger and bigger and bigger. And there were more people at shows and, I guess it would be,
kind of the same thing that we did to the Exit people. Like all of a sudden, it wasn’t our comfortable little deal anymore. – I think there was a
lot more of the cliche punk attitude goin’ on. And actually at the time, we didn’t consider ourselves to be punk. We considered ourselves to be hardcore. We drew a big difference between the two. And then when we started gettin’ people who were comin’ into the “hardcore” scene, who were “punk”, that’s when we didn’t like it. – Yeah, I blame that on Quincy and Chips. Absolutely, you know. Because I didn’t know
many people who did that. Who sold that studded jacket
and mohawk sort of thing. And I think those portrayals
like brought that back. – [Woman] Younger, tougher, suburban, and they’re out lookin’ for a fight. – In the beginning, I think there were a lot of women in the pit. Because it was really chill. It was really mellow, you know. And by ’83, ’84, women
stopped being able to be in it because it just became this
big knucklehead slugfest, you know. – And then I felt sorry
for the little girls that wanted to be, the little punk girls, and they would try to jump in there, and it wasn’t that friendly. Even the girls got hurt (laughing). As cool as they looked and
as punk as they looked. – And it started to become a lot less fun. And I think that’s when I stopped going to so many shows, you know. And by like, 1985, I was out of there. – Yeah, I think 1985
was when a lot of people decided to look around
for other kinds of music. – But I would still go
and hang out on the side and you know, slightly older, you know. And they new kids would
just bitch about them. (mumbles), (laughing). “They don’t know, they
got no idea,” you know. I became exactly what I
hated in the beginning. (laughing) – We’d like to tell you about
a really stupid radio station. – Q101. – They say that Q stands
for quality music. – What a laugh. – They don’t play the Dead Boys. – The Flesheaters. – The Germs. – All you get is Fleetwood Mac. – (Inaudible) – Best of the ’60’s. – James Taylor. – The Beatles. – Eagles. – Nothing. – [Radio Narrator] Q101. The Q is for quality music. – Do they give you Let’s
Lynch the Landlord? – Never. (punk instrumentals) – See this book. The complete and thorough,
thoroughly thorough history of punk rock, right. Okay, it should be interesting. There’s nothing about Chicago. There was Steve Albini was, had
like, a few lines about him, and that was it. – Were were just kind
of off the map, I mean. Nobody, there was no such thing as a Chicago scene that
was recognized nationally. – Midwest is a bunch
of hicks, you know, so. I think that’s what the attitudes sort of of the entertainment
industry is, you know. – There wasn’t enough people who recorded. There wasn’t enough people who got signed. I mean, I can name the
bands that got signed on one hand, you know. – I think if one band had had kind of made it a little bit, it would have, you know,
fueled the whole scene. And it would have, but it just didn’t. You know, when it doesn’t
happen, nothing happens. – Chicago always was like
the red-headed stepchild, you know. (punk music) – I have people tell me that they thought this was going
to turn into something. “This is going to change the world!” I’m like, you’re nuts. It’s not going to change the world. It might change music. I was ready to, and I wasn’t even sure about that. I thought, you know. We do our thing, we be around for awhile, it would be forgotten, and everything would go
back to the way it was prior to us showing up. – Somebody wrote a book, and it was a Boy George biography. I don’t care about Boy George. But the title was great. It’s called, ‘As if Punk Never Happened’. And that’s exactly what we are now. – Um, I mean it’s kind
of like classic rock now. You know, it’s like,
I’ll walk into some store and some kid will have a
mohawk and a leather jacket and it’s like, oh, it’s retro, you know. – Nowadays it’s fairly ubiquitous. You can’t really get away from punk, or people who think they know punk. – Well they have more
tattoos, more piercings. And they know what the
uniform is all about. You know, in the old days, people did whatever they wanted to
do but now it’s like, everybody’s got a pretty
good idea what you should do if you want to be into it. – Once it became like a generic look, I kind of felt like anybody adopting that was you know, fair game. Like, okay, clearly you are an idiot. You know (laughing). So now if I see somebody
reviving that look I don’t get all warm and fuzzy, you know. It’s like somebody reviving
the Nixon administration or something, you know. It’s an ugly memory. – My impression of the ones that I see, the ones that I’ve talked
to that are really, really, out there, I don’t think
they’re all that bright. – I’ve met so many, racists, sexists, just downright closed-minded people dressed up like that. That you know, it’s
fashion, you know, fashion. – Literally, i see Minor Threat t-shirts on kids who weren’t born
when Minor Threat broke up. What do I think? Get your own fuckin’ scene. – Do your own thing, you know. I’m not supposed to like what you do. I’m almost 50 years old. You should be doing
something that’s really going to annoy the shit out of me. And you’re failing, because you know, I like punk rock, so, you know. You’ve failed. – Are there punk rockers today? There’s people that look
like punk rockers today, but. – They sound like punk rockers. – It’s the equivalent of me
putting on a tie-died shirt and hippie beads and growin’ my hair, and hey, I’m a hippie. Well, it’s dead and gone. I mean, get your own movement. – But then again I don’t think it’s fair to blame people for their age. I mean, you can’t help when you’re born. And if you want to make
a certain kind of noise, I suppose you could
second-guess people’s motivation all day long. That’s not something I’m
terribly interested in doing. I mean, I’d rather second guess my own. – There’s still a lot of good punk bands. A lot of good bands out there
playing good hardcore music. But just doesn’t have the same feeling, the same anger, the same energy that was back in the old day. – It’s like bands were
then but not as good. You know, and there’s not the immediacy or the conviction. – They don’t seem to be
as into it as we were. It seems to be a lot
more boredom going on. I’ve been to a few punk shows recently and they just kind of stand around. – The punk rock in the
late ’70’s and early ’80’s there was a lot of irony and sarcasm. And I think some of that
is kind of lost now. – They got the chords,
they got, you know, beats. They just don’t have the spirit. They just don’t understand it. It’s been codified and turned into like, this mainstream, mall-culture, just another way to advertise
tennis shoes and stuff. And it’s really really sad. – The bands I used to go see
that I really worshipped, they didn’t make any money. Like, they were doing it because
it was a cool thing to do and because there was nothing else to do. And because they wanted to. Whereas now, you can,
you know, have a mohawk and be on MTV and have a big record. – If you have a tour bus,
if you have deli trays, and all red M&M’s, that’s not punk rock. – The music that passes for punk now, or the music that’s called punk, sort of stylistically now, is populist music. It’s you know, it’s for
jocks and cheerleaders. And you know. Kids in the Pet Club or whatever. You know, those are the people that like that kind of music now. That’s who it’s made for. And you know, they’re the enemy. – They don’t back it up. They don’t back it up musically, and they don’t back it up with attitude. It’s the song content, the lyric content. They’re singin’ about
bein’ mad about some girl in Southern California. That’s not what punk’s about. Punk’s about bein’ pissed
off at the general condition. – A lot of ’em are doin’
the same old fuckin’ shit. And, yeah, whatever. – I’ve only heard things, like this new, new new new and I’m goin, “I don’t know, I heard 10 bands like that” “20 years ago,” you know, I don’t know. – Yeah and it’s what you
consider punk anymore nowadays. I mean, punk is mainstream almost. – Yeah. – If you can sell it it
doesn’t hold the same weight. You know. But that’s inevitable,
as far as I’m concerned. You know. You can’t stop that, and
you shouldn’t stop it. You know, underground music goes through what it goes through and then it’s over. – There was like a, you
know, the rage towards Reaganism and all that. There was a movement. And even though politics are
totally fucked up right now. It’s just there for the taking. I don’t see it, you know. Greenday’s pissed at Bush, you know. Aw, you know. It’s just different. It’s just a different time. – We were all angry. I wonder what happened to
all the anger (laughing). It seems people are very
happy with the way things are right now (laughing) and
I don’t understand it. ‘Cause I mean, right now,
it’s worse than ever. – As long as their
material needs and wants are being satisfied, they don’t care. They’re not going to get angry about much. – And they just like this comfort zone that they have right now. Because what’s masquerading as punk is more commercial and politically correct than anything we ever did. – I don’t know, what is
punk rock these days. – I think people today are getting into other kinds of music. If they really want adventurous music. ‘Cause I think there is
adventurous stuff out there and I think it’s not
necessarily punk rock. – You know, I’ve got
great hope in the kids. And I hope they, you know, do manage to be able to come up with
new and creative ways of expressing themselves. It may not be the same as the punk rock we knew in ’77, ’78, but
something that embodies that same kind of spirit of rebellion and experimentation. – Let me deal with what
I put my parents through. Do it, do it, you know. Freak me out, cool. Then I’ll be proud of ya. – I tell ya one thing about the suburbs. Once we got this whole “punk rock” thing settled in the suburbs,
it’s never gonna leave. It’ll take a thousand
years to leave the suburbs and that’s where it’s stuck now. And that’s where it’s gonna stay for hundreds of years past
my death and everything. It’s the world’s greatest thing. That punk rock has
settled into the suburbs. You can’t get it to leave now. You’ll have to root it out by its ankles and pull it out by the roots, you know. ‘Cause once the suburbs
glom onto something, like, you know, bad
heavy metal or whatever, it takes forever to get it out of there. It’s still there, this punk rock thing is in there, it’s where
it’s settled down into. And bands are just gonna keep comin’ out of the suburbs doin’ that forever now. For as long as you and I are alive. (punk music)

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